Tuesday, October 13, 2009

Happy Tuesday!

So, my friend Jay and his friends always seem to have these interesting, thought-provoking conversations. Today, he told me of one where his female friend wondered, “Is it ever okay for a man to ask a woman he’s dating for money?” Hmmm….

I don’t think there’s a yes or no answer to this – but rather one that is based on individual circumstances. But it does raise the question about romance and finances…and if the two should be kept separate. I think it depends on what stage of the relationship you’re in, even though some would argue that romance and finances should be kept separate well into marriage.

I’ve never had to share my money with anyone. I’ve never had to loan money to someone I was dating either, but I’m not sure that means that I never would. Even though my experiences in that area are limited, I can say I’ve seen women get played when it comes to money simply because they were too generous, or because they thought they could buy their man’s love.

I’ve also known women who wouldn’t date a man if he wasn’t able to provide for her as well as himself. I’m not saying they were gold diggers, but they weren’t messing with no broke men either :-) Were these women misguided...or realistic?

Let’s face it, most women want to be with a man who can provide for her and a potential family. I don’t think that’s a secret. So if you have a man who is constantly borrowing money from you, that’s not sending a secure signal. I think in a lot of cases, it’s not about money or how much he makes - but about responsibility. To most women, a man who constantly borrows money seems irresponsible, not just broke. I think women today feel that a lot of men nowadays have put the issue of responsibility on the back seat - and have no problem reaching their hand out for a $20 loan. I have friends who ask what a man’s credit score is, not how much money he makes. A man can make a modest salary and be responsible with his money, or he can make an exceptional salary and be completely in debt. For some, relationships are serious business - and if your partner in this business is irresponsible with money, it’s a business that is sure to fail.

However, it should be noted that women who only date men based on their pockets might be missing out on something – they don’t look much further than the surface. While I think it’s important to know how your partner uses and values money, I think the value of LOVE goes down when all we care about is a person’s finances. When all we care about is money, the depth and sanctity of love is tainted…abused even. I realize that the more serious the relationship gets, the more love and money are in close association - but love shouldn’t be measured by money or material things. Love should co-exist with them.

But if it’s still early in the relationship, and you’re not sure what to do – keep your money separate whenever possible. If you’re confused, keep it separate even to the point of splitting the bill at dinner unless he says he’s treating you. I know most women don’t like to do this, but if you work on separating finances early, it’s less likely to be a sore subject later. Not all circumstances call for this, but if money is your sole motivator, then keep it separate.

Do NOT ever, ever, ever co-sign for anything or buy something together – a car, a timeshare, a joint bank account, ANYTHING. Financial dependence breeds resentment, and eventually hostility. Women are good for this, and some of us are trained in this dependency role. Stop it! And keep your money in the bank.

But if you DO share an account and someone wants to break up – don’t TAKE anyone’s money and don’t GIVE anyone money. Take what’s yours and bounce. If they need money to move or take care of business, tell him or her to take out a loan or ask someone else. A lot of men and women think they can buy back someone’s love, which is a mistake. If the one you once adored is no longer in your life or you two are no longer a couple – avoid financial entanglements altogether. If YOU need money, get a part-time job, don’t ask your ex. It’ll just lead to resentment and blame later, and no one needs to deal with that.

This goes for both men AND women – if you can’t take personal responsibility for your own finances, you have no business messing around in someone else’s. Get your house in order and make sure they have their house in order too…then you can talk about inviting each other over :-)



Anonymous said...

What?! No one has claimed first place? Well, I will even though I don't curse! I'm first haters!

Annamaria said...


Anywho..Like you said it depends on the stage in your relationship & what it's for... I don't think it's cool for a dude to wanna borrow rent money after one date BUT if you guys are dating and he needs $20 I see nothing wrong with that????

Anonymous said...

Seriously though, this is a good topic. I have been in the position where I have loaned a man money, and I will not do it again. He reminded me too much of my stepfather (who always asks my mom for money) and I DO NOT intend to end up like that. It's one thing if the guy is really a friend and has fallen on hard times, but it's something else when a man expects to receive money just because he asks.

I think that if you are dealing with a real man, he would almost want to lose a limb before they ask a woman for money, because they don't want to be looked down upon. I respect that. Unfortunately, some men are used to women taking care of them, which is sad.

Speaking for myself, when I look at what a man has, it is to try to ensure that he is a provider and that he will not seek to take advantage of me financially. However, you must look deeper to see if he is spending his money wisely as well. Just because a man may be a lawyer, doctor, etc does not mean that he lives within his means.

Anonymous said...

Ok you win. Like I said, I don't cuss, I just wanted to participate in the discussion, that's all.

*Going back into lurk mode*

Jaz said...

I don't think it's cool for a man to borrow rent money after ANY date! I've actually had a man ask me to give him money for his mortgage once and I quickly deaded him. If you can't pay your own bills, then you need to go get yourself together before you step to me. And if you think I'm gonna pay it, simply because we're dating, then you're sadly mistaken.

If you only have a debit card and something you need only takes cash and you will hit the ATM so you can quicly pay me back $20, that's one thing. But dudes who CONSTANTLY forget their wallet, CONSTANTLY borrow money, ALLOW you to pay their bills and expenses and NEVER pay you back need to bounce.

Rameer said...

I never HAVE, and never WILL allow finances to play any part in my relationship unless we are living together on the way to marriage or married. If I need money, that's what family and close friends are for - and even then, I won't ask more than likely. And having the balls to ask me? You outta yo mind...

And, as I've said before, any woman who even comes at me on the money tip, I let 'em know - you can EARN my duckets. When they inevitably think I'm talking about sex, love, affection, etc. I hit 'em with "naw...I got some sidewalks you can lay, gutters you can clean, leaves you can rake..."

And I be DEAD SERIOUS, too.

I look at it like this - you a grown-a$$ woman, and I'm a grown-a$$ man. You this old and don't know how to balance your dollars to make it work? And, you ain't got the sense to be ashamed to even come out and ask people for money like that?

Nah. Sorry. I admit, everything ain't Black & white, and extenuating circumstances can occur. But that's RARELY. How'd you make it by before me? Well, you better go to that same well again. My name ain't Willy Lump Lump!

Besides, in general, I don't really give loans. If I give someone I'm close to money, I don't intend to get it back - I give it to them like "keep that". That way, money never becomes an issue in our relationship, as I've seen it do in countless others - y'all know you've seen family issues with others completely based on money. AND, if I know I'm going to need the money at some point, I don't lend it - period. I'll never be like these people who lend money expecting to get paid back by the time the lendee said, and then caught in a bind when they can't come up with the cheddar.

Or maybe my attitude stems from seeing mad heads get blasted over money growing up. Probably.

The Cable Guy said...

I agree with anonymous - I think I would rather DIE than ask a woman for money. I asked for a quick $20 once with the intention on hitting the machine and paying her back, and the look on her face was all I needed. I will NEVER do that again. If I don't have it, I don't have it, I'd never want a woman to look at me like that ever again. And any self respecting man should feel the same and wouldn't allow a woman to give him money, pay his bills or buy him anything outside of a birthday, Christmas or anniversary gift. That's just my opinion.

Brooke said...

I think it also depends on the signals you give. Some women offer money, or let the man know what their finances are and give off a vibe that they'll buy a man's affection. If a man is an opportunist, or has it in his heart to take advantage of you, then a woman who does that is an easy prey. I think men know who they can and can't ask for money, and who they can and can't take advantage of. Real men don't worry about these vibes because they don't have any intention of using women for money.

Men can be the same way. They say it ain't trickin if you got it? Really? Yes it is...and the gold diggers of the world know it. Both men and women have to be smarter and more careful.

Brooke said...

Speaking of trickin, did anyone hear the conversation on Hot97 last week about men who spend money on a woman - and not alot... I'm talking about dinner and a movie - and expect to get something in return (read: sex) if they think they're doing the woman a "favor?" The dj said the woman he took out was a "5" - not all that - but had a fat ass, so he thought she would let him hit it because she was out with HIM - because she couldn't do any better. Do men think they're doing women a favor if they have some status if they take them out and the woman now OWES him something?

Just curious if anyone heard that.

The Cable Guy said...

Yes, I heard that on the radio and Cypher Sounds was buggin. Basically, if you spend money on a woman, it should be because you want to, not because you expect something in return. Now I know dudes who take women out, empty their pockets on one woman week after week, while she's giving the ass to someone else. And THAT'S not cool, but that comes with being smart enough to know when you're being played. That goes with any situation. But at the end of the day, if you think you're gonna get sex, regardless of who the chick is or if she's a 5 or a 10, just for buying dinner, then you're a HERB as Brooke would say.

Stef said...

This is a good topic. I know alot of women who pay for men, buy them things, throw money at them, all because they think it'll make their man love them more or stay.

Now don't get me wrong, if you're in a relationship and you want to buy your man something just because you think it's thoughtful, then that's one thing. But if you're breaking the bank trying to keep him interested, then you'll just end up broke and alone. Don't run up your credit for a man or give him your last $20 just so he'll stay with you. There's no respect in that.

And men who will TAKE your money, are bums. You can't respect a man like that no more than a man can respect a gold digger. Gifts are one thing, but dependency and being taken advantage of are another. Get it together and know the difference!

DMoe said...

Excellent topic -

Here's my take: While every day should be Christmas, and every night should be New Year's Eve, there will be some points in a relationship where times are slimmer than others. I/she may not have exactly what's needed sometimes and that's alright - if there's trust.

That goes for both people. But here's the thing: As a man, certainly - I want to shower/provide for/spoil the woman at hand, however, there are certain reciprocal elements where score should really not be kept. (Read: trust)

If I do for you, I just do. A loan is a bit different (depending on amounts involved, one's ability to loan, and the other's ability/requirement to repay) because basically, if/when you loan people close enough to you to even ask for such, you've already come to the determination that the $$$ has blown in the wind. Now if you need it back, things like that come with (again) trust and knowing WHOM you are doing this "favor" for.

It all comes back to that, and ladies...If you've been burned for a bunch of cash by some fool in the past, the hard-working dude who would die first before asking you for a nickel shouldn't have to suffer - if in fact he's who you say he is. Same might go for guys I'd imagine. I've loaned a lady some before, but my problem is with the chick who bitches about needing her cash, but seems to forget the loan(s) she missed payments on. LOL.

"I shouldn't even be KEEPING SCORE, but since you trippin', where's my 200 dollars?" LMAO.

DMoe aka Johnny Cash

Brooke said...

I agree, it's all about trust and knowing who you're dealing with. I think alot of men and women jump the gun when it comes to throwing money around. If you're in a serious relationship and you trust each other not to hurt the other, then there really are no "rules."

I think the question was more for people who actually already know the answer. If you suspect someone is playing you, then they probably are. Go with your instincts and use your head before parting with your money.

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