Tuesday, December 8, 2009

Is Monogamy Normal?

Good morning everyone :-)

So I'm feeling well enough to get up and go to work. Thank you all for all your well wishes! :-)

Being home all weekend on the couch left me with plenty of time to watch tv while trying blow my nose and breathe at the same time. As you can imagine, everything on the news focused on...you guessed it...Tiger Woods. While I think this story just keeps evolving (supposedly his wife has moved out...she'll be back), the same question is being asked everyday: "If you're going to cheat, why get married?"

Now, to be fair, not every person who cheats SETS OUT to cheat. I'm sure a good number of folks who get married are completely in love and believe in forever with that one person. But then things happen - boredom, complacency, children, finances, or whatever - all can and sometimes DO take a toll on a relationship. Some people cheat because they're lacking something in their relationship. Some do it because they want to feel desired, challenged or simply because they want sexual variety. None of these are justifiable excuses...but simply a reason for infidelity.

But there are some who KNOW they can't be faithful, yet get married or find themselves in "committed" relationships anyway. And if you're a celebrity, most know that with money and power come greater temptation. If they've mastered their field - whether it's entertainment in the form of movies, music or sports - your level of arrogance and the desire to have it all presupposes that getting caught or suffering consequences isn't high on your radar. Celebs are used to winning.

And then someone gets hurt.

And then you have to shell out millions of dollars to make her stay, and pay out more to keep the rest quiet...allegedly.

So is it worth it? Why get married? That's the question.

The REAL question could be, "Is monogamy normal?"

There is nothing that tells us that we NEED to get married. There's no crime in being single - even though some would treat it that way. Are we EXPECTED to get married? Is that what society tells us we should do?

I mean, if your religion tells you you should get married, then maybe that's one thing. And if so, then adultery probably goes against that...unless your religion tells you that you can have multiple spouses. But for most religions, adultery is a sin...and you're supposed to be stronger than nature and fight the temptations of the flesh.

But for those who may not be religious, and who believe that monogamy isn't natural, why do THOSE people get married? Why form permanent relationships - or label them that way? I know some guys who ALWAYS have a "girlfriend." They can't wait to introduce you to their "girlfriend." Yet, they always cheat on their girlfriends... they always have a girl on the side. My question to them was always, "Why have a girlfriend? Why not just date MULTIPLE women?"

Most of them said they loved their "girl" but just had the other women for sex. And most of them would throw themselves in front of bus if their girl or wife ever found out about their cheating ways. Yet they did it anyway. I never understood that.

If you believe that monogamy isn't natural, then don't be selfish. There is nothing wrong with not having to answer to anyone. There's nothing wrong with going out, spotting someone you wanna hook up with for the night, have non-committal sex and keep it moving. When you're single, you can keep your options open, change your mind, find a new flavor of the week and avoid the emotional turmoil of breaking someone's heart - and the financial devastation of having to pay to keep her...or lose her. Simply put, some people don't believe in monogamy...and there's nothing wrong with that.

But some people do.

Just like there's nothing wrong with NOT believing in monogamy, there are a bunch of people who like the security of monogamy...especially when there are incurable diseases out there that can kill you.

Some say married people are happier, healthier and wealthier. Some like the emotional and physical intimacy that comes with monogamous relationships. They like the warm fuzzy feeling they get from knowing someone who loves them is at home waiting for them to come through the door. They like having someone to call when they need someone to talk to, to cuddle with, to just...be there. It's a high level of commitment that forms a family of two - or more should you decide to have children.

And if you find that you're with a person who believes in those things, then the expectation is that you believe in those things too if you're together. So if you DON'T believe in being faithful - or you do and know in your heart that you can't live up to that expectation - then be honest. It's one thing if you falter and make a mistake. But if you get into a relationship knowing you can't be faithful, even when your partner expects you to, then set that person free to be with someone who CAN be faithful. It's the most loving, selfless thing you can do.

Society tells us we should be "coupled up" - live our lives in "pairs." That's not always true. Some like team sports, some thrive in individual sports. We shouldn't force or feel forced into monogamous relationships, or feel lonely if we aren't in one. Love can still exist in our lives...even individually...not married. Just be honest with yourself if you're a person who does NOT believe in monogamy so that you don't hurt the people who do...cuz there are a lot of "DO's" out there.

Jus sayin.



Anthony Otero said...

first bitches!!!

Anthony Otero said...

I wont even touch this subject. I just want to say that monogamy is possible but it just takes 2 people who are committed to each other.

The problem is...people settle too quickly..

NightFall914 said...

I don't think society tells us monogamy is the norm. I just think as time has been on people are getting emotionally weaker and looking for justification to have their cake and eat it too. Now I know polygamy is a way of life in other nations but that isn't my thing.

Annamaria said...

I agree monogomy is very normal & can be a beautiful thing. Especially with the right person. Society is just running crazy these days & making people think the grass is greener on the other side & that its ok to be running thru anyone & everyone... It may seem cute to cheat but it takes a BETTER person to remain faithful.. I agree with Ant that people are just in a rush & settleing tooo quick... And this is another reason why in one of our previous blogs I stated not to settle. Hold out for the right one & monogomy will not only feel right it will feel normal.

P.S.-When Tiger's nasty ass dick falls off he's going to wish he was monogamous!!

Jay said...

I think for WOMEN, monogamy may be normal. Polygamy is a way of life in some nations, but mostly in the case of the MAN having more than one WIFE, not the other way around. Maybe a question could be "is monogamy normal to MEN?"

I think it's much easier for women to be monogamous than men. Not saying it's not possible for a man to be, but I think biologically we're different. The man who doesn't cheat, in my opinion, is one who ignores a natural tendency - whether because of his own moral standing, religious beliefs or what have you. For others, it's not their thing.

Monogamy takes work. If you find someone that want to share your life with, then making sure you don't hurt them by being unfaithful is paramount - especially if that's their expectation of you. If you can't be faithful, then make sure you're completely careful they don't find out - because the emotional fallout isn't worth it. Some women can deal, but most can't...and they'll never trust you again.

Normal is what you WANT to be normal, and if being unfaithful isn't your thing, then that's what's normal for you.

Good blog Brooke.

Anonymous said...

Is monogamy normal? No it's not normal or natural. It is sciencetificaly proven. It is in man's DNA to procreate with as many woman as possible. Drop his seed and multiply. This is the foundation of the Alpha male. People today don't want to accept this fact because no one wants to admit that their mate ( no matter how perfect they think they are) could possibly play them. I hear it all the time.. oh no, not MY MAN, Not my boo, he would NEVER SHE WOULD NEVER. But the truth is IT COULD HAPPEN to ALL OF US.Monogamy only works if the two people in the relationship work hard at it and want it to.

The Fury said...

Monogamy isn't natural, it was created by man. Much like Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and pancakes. Pancakes? Yes muthafukn pancakes! Cuz like pancakes it can be good or it can go stale.

If you're in a committed relationship, should you stay committed? YES! Will you? Depends on if she's sucking the skin off your dick or he's filling you to the rim with him and making you shake like a parkinson's sufferer having a seizure. (took it too far but you get me) And even then there's no guarantee

The game is fucked up when jumpoffs are running to the first camera and admitting they slept with a married man. Stay in the closet with the rest of the bones.

Stef said...

I agree, monogamy isn't normal, especially not for men. Women are trained to have babies with one man, while men are programmed to have babies with as many women as possible. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

I just hate that it exists that way. If a man sleeps with many women, then that's normal. But let one of his women step out on him and all hell breaks loose.

And it would be one thing if these "alpha males" could TAKE CARE of all the women and children he has, but most times that isn't the case at all. Being a man doesn't mean you can bang every chick you see and make babies. Being a real man means you can take care of them all.

Say what you wanna say about Tiger, but at least he can AFFORD to take care of all his women and children. Most broke negroes out here are content to just f*ck everything that moves and have mad baby mama's with no responsibility. I'm not mad at Tiger, he's doing what a man does - and he can AFFORD too!

Stef said...

Why is it messed up when the jumpoffs wanna get paid? I'm sorry, but if I'm Tiger Woods, I GOTTA expect these women to be with me for my money, cuz it damn sure ain't because of his great looks and charm. Fuck outta here!

If you wanna play, expect to get played. He used these women for sex, so they can use him for money. They're getting their payday, so if he didn't want to get caught out there, he should have kept his shit in his pants.

The "game" is fucked up? No, TIGER IS FUCKED UP. He played the game and got PLAYED. Deal with it!

The Cable Guy said...

I just can't believe the chicks he's been linked to!? Porn stars, waitresses, one chick worked at a Perkins restaurant and lived in a trailer? Really???

C'mon son!

Tiger played himself with these ugly, trashy women and we're surprised the jumpoffs came out the closet? What else they got going for them. If he had cheated with women who had as much to lose as he did, he wouldn't be in this mess. These dudes always cheat with bird chicks, then wonder why they got busted. He's a clown.

The Fury said...

LOL Tiger didn't get played. He played himself! The fact that these women are jumping to show their dirty drawers to the camera is ridiculous.

He used them for sex? They fucked him. One of them was with him over 31 months (she claims)....that's not using. They had sex. I don't see them as victims cuz they're not.

If I'm side dick. I'm side dick and I play my position. But in these days and times some people will never understand that. Just because one woman stood and took claim to fucking him doesn't mean you should. Paid? Nope....they're playing themselves. There's no pay day at the end of this for any of them except MAYBE the 31 month chick. And she's putting up small numbers trust me.

Stef said...

You don't know what he's telling these women. He could be like "I love you" blah blah blah. I ain't buying it. Maybe he's telling them that they're NOT jumpoffs. I'm sure some of them know they are, but these women get it in their head that if TIGER WOODS wants me, then MAYBE I'm good enough for him to leave his wife. 31 months is a long time to just be breaking someone off. He's paying for trips and buying them shit, and chances are he's like every other married man out there who's cheating who is singing the blues about what his wife won't do, how unhappy he is, all that crap!

All married men who cheat run the same game. They tell these chicks that their wife doesn't understand them. That the sex is gone. That they don't love her anymore, that they're staying for the kids. All cheating married men have a sob story, when in fact they just want their cake and eat it too. Married men RARELY say "I love my wife and we're happy, I just wanna fuck you." So you can believe what you want, but I bet Tiger told at least 2 of these women that he's not happy at home and filled them with false hope.

And THAT'S why they're trying to hurt him. It's called 15 minutes of fame and PAYBACK. These women feel used, even if they weren't, and they're trying to hurt him back. That's all it is. If he didn't do the shit in the first place, his ass wouldn't be in the situation he's in now.

Jaz said...

So there are "rules" to being a sidechick now? Really?

If you f*ck around, be prepared for the consequences. There ARE NO rules.

Jay said...

I have to agree with Stef and Jaz on this one. There are no rules anymore when it comes to side chicks or side dick. Why should someone play their position? They don't owe him or his wife anything.

The only rule that needs to be followed is the vows he took. And if he can't do that, then he should expect everything that's happening to him. These women don't owe him a damn thing, but he owes his wife. These women aren't violating any laws, and why should we expect women who would knowingly cheat with a married man to have the moral standing to shield him. Clearly if they'd cheat with him, they don't care about showing their dirty drawers. If they're in it for sex, then they have no reason to protect him. Maybe if they loved him they would, but they don't...so they don't have to play any position. They have no position. He played himself and got busted. That's all.

The Fury said...

Ever think that these married men are saying the same things because it's what's happening in marriages all over?

I'm not going to say I know the situation or what Tiger said to each of these women if anything. But yes there are rules to being a side person (regardless of gender). And I mean that when you KNOW you're the side piece. Keep your mouth shut.

As for monogamy (sorry for hijacking Brookey) What do you all think are the pros and cons of monogamy?

Anthony Otero said...

All I will say is that when you are in love...and I mean, truly, in love...You will not want to be with anyone else...

DMoe said...

@Stef -

Wait..Now Tiger's lovin' these h*es?? After pickin' they azz out at clubs, the local Perkins' restaurant, etc?

Why would he have to "say" anything, he's "friggin" Tiger!

But seriously, some of these chicks were opportunists, and clearly, he was too. Yet, a few of them may have SIMPLY wanted to get down with Tiger, and they did.

Sorry, couldn't resist.


momo925 said...

I think that the seeds of monogamy are planted from the time we are raised. Little girls are taught to be ladies...keep your legs crossed, this is proper, this is not, etc. We watch fairy tales, are taught to wait for that special person, and to look forward to marriage. Boys get taught a completely different lesson. It's the classic double standard. I see it time and time again with fathers and sometimes even mothers who condition their sons to think being in a relationship is the equivalent to being tied down or locked up. The advice they lend to the growing male is "watch out she's trying to trap you" or they look at them with pride when they are 17/18years old and the girls are running behind him. He's branded with the "player" title and older men praise him for being so smoothe. The last thing they want to be told is that they are a sucker or that they are "whipped". Well these boys grow up to be men with the same outlook... the same men that don't cherish relationships and believe that monogamy is just too unnatural to maintain. If you are being taught from small that this is something you should avoid, how can it ever feel normal?

Anonymous said...

Yes JAZ,therE are rules to being a jump off.
RULE # 1 know your position. YOU WILL NEVER BE WIFEY, EVER, U ARE A JUMP OFF, SO DO WHAT YOU DO BEST AND JUMPOFF.(Obviuosly these girls forgot that. If they thought Tiger was leaving his wife for any of them they are stupid>)

Stef said...

@Dmoe, ain't nobody saying Tiger is loving anybody. My point is we DON'T know. Clearly Tiger wasn't very selective, and he's not that smart either since we wanna talk about "rules." How about Rule #1, don't leave your name on voicemails talking about "my wife went thru my phone." He's a dumbass, so I can just imagine what he COULD be saying.

Of course they wanted to get down with Tiger. Who wouldn't? They want to be able to say they were with a world famous athlete and get the perks...whether it's money or whatever. He was flying chicks all over to be with him, so hell yeah they were opportunists just like he was. So why he feels they owe him something is beyond me. He clearly had MANY side chicks, and none of them owes him anything since they clearly weren't the only ones.

Rameer said...

Once again - I LOVE all the venom spewed at Tiger, when most who spew it don't realize that almost EVERY male celeb you like has done the same thing. And that's not even an exaggeration - you can fool yourselves if you want.

Tiger's no nastier than Mickey Mantle or JFK.

And there ARE rules to the game - but I'm not going to get into them all here, cuz the game is to be sold, not TOLD. True story - I may not BE a pimp or player, but I know the game very well.

Some of you are - sorry for being brutally honest - very naive. You guys are wondering why all these chicks are jumping out the woodwork? Y'all think he did them grimey and it's payback time?

Well why didn't they ever drop dime BEFORE?? They all could have gotten him at ANY time. What's the motivation to do it NOW?

Cuz the second chick accused got over $100,000 to produce the voicemail and text messages. THAT'S why.

They smell MONEY. They all think if they drop their story, they'll get paid, maybe get a little 15 minutes of fame, etc. It has nothing to do with him lying to them or anything of the sort. I think all of you should watch ESPN's "First Take" or "Mike & Mike In The Morning" to get the actual details and not go off the rumors.

And why are y'all so quick to believe all these women are telling the truth? Hell, at this point one of YOU could accuse Tiger and, if you've ever been in a meeting with him or on the same property, people would believe you. Celebs regularly get all types of additional people coming out the woodwork when infidelity is discovered, cuz those people can prove a link and try to make money off of the link - whether they had a relationship with the celeb or not.

Happened to Brad Pitt and Jude Law. But y'all don't care about them, of course.

As for monogamy - I think most people have addressed it. It's not natural for most due to genetically ingrained instinct; watch the entire animal kingdom for proof of this. What separates us is our choices as "higher intelligence" beings. So if you choose to be monogamous, that means you feel that your mate is worth suppressing, ignoring or eliminating said monogamous urges.

More after the break.

Jaz said...

I feel like this. If I'm in it for whatever, I can do what I want. Why protect a man who's cheating on his wife? I don't have to keep my mouth shut. For what? Keeping my mouth shut means what? Nothing.

I'm sorry, but when it comes to adultery, there are no rules.

Stef said...

I'm not spewing hate at Tiger, and I assume ALL male celebs are cheating, so nothing new there and definitely not naive. And like I said, I don't think monogamy is normal, so I'm not even mad at Tiger. What I'm mad at is men saying that sidechicks should play their position. Why? If they can get paid, then why be mad at that?

These women meant nothing to Tiger, so why should he expect any loyalty to them? And if they cheat with married men, then why would they be "moral" enough to keep their mouth shut? That makes no sense to me. We're giving them too much credit. Following the "rules" gets them nothing. Why just get fucked? If they can get paid, or get 15 minutes, or whatever they feel is valuable to them, they why protect someone who doesn't give a shit about them? Ya'll act like sidechicks owe the man something, when they don't owe him shit. Ya'll just mad that they're out to get his money. Well DUH!!! of course they are! And he's paying for it now. He's Tiger Woods, big pimpin right? well then bust out your checkbook boo, it's time to get what you deserve.

That's not spewing venom, that's truth right there. And all the other celebs doing it just ain't got caught...yet. Maybe they're smarter about it. But I assume ALL rich, poweful men cheat - famous or not. Hell, most BROKE nukkas cheat...and everything in between. It's just the way it is, and these women - whether they're with a broke man or a rich man - don't owe these men SQUAT!!

DMoe said...

Thanks Stef.

You really hit it on the head..."Of course they wanted to get down with Tiger...Who Wouldn't?"

That's my point also.
Tiger doesn't have to provide sob stories, gifts, and all the other things mentioned...Cuz he's friggin "Tiger!"

I agree on his lack of being selective, the various things wrong with all of this, and his foolishness on the voicemail...but at the end of the day:

He's just an example of a "status" guy who lives a life where women throw themselves at his feet. Some guys in his position step over and keep it moving, others don't. Clearly, Tiger had other things going on.

In my humble opinion, the story is really about -

"Oh hell no...NOT TIGER!"

The shock value is what's pushing this thing.

that's said with love...L.O.V.E

your friend and mine,

Brooke said...

I don't think anyone on this blog is naive and doesn't believe there aren't other celebs out there doing what Tiger, Kobe, Shaq, JFK, or any other man in their position is doing. I think we all get that.

And we all know why the women are coming out the woodwork now. We all know that too and I didn't see anyone really disputing that.

The point of the blog was if monogamy is natural. Most of the responses say no, it's not natural.

So if we KNOW that, then the question remains...WHY GET MARRIED? Can anyone answer that? Some of you who believe that monogamy isn't natural ARE married or in RELATIONSHIPS right now. With the exception of Ant and Rameer, no one has really addressed the "why's" of why they get into relationships even when they don't believe they can be faithful. I'm curious to hear responses on that. I know Rameeer said it's because they feel they've found someone who they believe is worth them fighting an inherent urge...and Ant said when you truly love someone, you don't want to be with someone else. But what about those out there who KNOW they can't be faithful but choose to be in a committed relationship anyway? Riddle me that.

Stef said...

@Dmoe, man please.

I'm not shocked that it's Tiger. I expect every man in his position to cheat. I wasn't shocked in the LEAST!

And if he's "Tiger" then why was he flying these women all around? He WAS buying them shit. Clearly just being "Tiger" wasn't enough for HIM, even if it was for THEM, otherwise he wouldn't be trickin on these hoes.

At the end of the day, you don't know WHAT he was saying or not saying.

Anthony Otero said...

That is bullshit. Those who think they can never be faithful? That is crap. We all have a basic need to be loved and to be held. Those who say they can never be faithful either have never been in love or have been so hurt by it that they are afraid.

No one wants to be alone. No one wants to die alone. If anyone says they do...is lying to themselves. People settle way too easy and confirm to what society believe is normal.

History hows that people have been getting married for centuries...so natural or not..we are all human and desire someone to love us.

Anthony Otero said...

sorry for the typos..i type fast when i am passionate about something..

History shows people have been getting married for centuries...

Rameer said...

1. These chicks ain't getting paid from Tiger. They're getting paid from gossip websites and magazines, if they even get paid (thus far, only two have gotten any money).

2. They would keep their mouths shut to continue sleeping with him, and keep getting the trips, money, hotels, etc. Now they're known as Tiger's whores, and if they don't catch on and turn this into something (I guarantee only one if any will be able to stretch this, cuz the sidechick NEVER is able to do that), they've just screwed up probably the best thing they had going.

Ask Michael Jordan's chicks. They lived REAL GOOD keeping their mouths shut.

Dealing with monogamy and marriage, it's simple - people feel the need to be in monogamous relationships and marriages cuz religion and society dictate that good, contributing members of society do that. And when you are anyone with a "name" or notoriety, you are even MORE pressured to put up the image of the happily married person with a family. It helps you long-term...there is plenty of evidence and literature one can look up on the subject.

Why do you think men who are single never stand a chance in running for the presidency? Why Oprah has always received and undercurrent of criticism at times for not being married to Stedman?

This country - and much of the world - is based off images displayed, not reality. Because it fools many of you, and makes you think that's how it is or should be.

Like I always say - red pill, blue pill. That applies to so many things...and, as I've said before - so many people STILL don't get how deep that concept truly is and how applicable it remains DAILY.

Jay said...

Brooke, that's a complicated answer. I can tell you why I cheated, but it wouldn't relate to the topic, because I honestly thought I COULD be faithful. I just went outside the relationship because I was lacking something in my relationship - and instead of being a man and addressing what I was missing, I found someone who I thought was giving me what I wanted. The problem is, I really wanted that from my girl at the time, and I didn't give her a chance to make it right because I never told her the issue I was having. That was MY fault.

As for men like Tiger, I'm sure there's the expectation to settle down and lead a nice "family life" and be a "family man" because that's what is expected of him. That's what alot of us are told. To settle down, have a family. And "populating the earth with your seed" is frowned upon, even if that's what we're naturally programmed to do. Most men CAN'T afford to procreate with every woman we meet, so we find ONE that can be our baby mama and then fulfill our sexual urges on the side. We find "wifey" for the kids, and then wanna get the sex on the side to satisfy that urge.

The sad part is women aren't built that way, so they get hurt when the alpha male they fought so hard to get goes out and gets him a side piece, because it makes her feel unloved and like she's not enough woman for her man. Truth is, he probaby DOES love you and you ARE enough, but our DNA just dictates what we've all said here - that we're not wired to be monogamous.

Rameer said...

Like Ant - the Typo monster has invaded my hands - forgive me...

Brooke said...

A basic need to be loved is different than an urge to have sex with different people.

Being monogamous is a choice. A decision you make. I'm not saying people can't. People make the decision to be faithful everyday. I'm not asking about them.

I'm wondering about the men who KNOW they can't, who have NO PLANS on being faithful, yet get into "monogamous" relationships anyway. I think Rameer and Jay summed it up though. It's a society expectation sometimes, not always a "love thang." :-)

The Fury said...

I think people get married because they want to be with that one person for the rest of their lives. I doubt married people think they'll ever cheat. Those that go into knowing that they can't be faithful must be looking for something in marriage they dont think exists in single life.

Just because I don't think that monogamy is natural doesn't mean that I don't think it's possible or even worth it.

Stef said...

I'm sure these women DID keep their mouths shut to continue sleeping with him and getting perks. The reason they're talking NOW is because Tiger got busted! His wife is ON TO HIM NOW! So they figure they better cash in now, cuz chances are he was gonna cut they asses off ANYWAY since he got caught! Ya'll know how ya'll do. Your wife finds out, and you pull back, or cut them off cuz you gotta lay low. Eventually you may cheat again, but you'll probably find NEW chicks to cheat with, so these women are trying to get theirs NOW.

Anthony Otero said...

i don't like the idea of people saying that we as men are hard wired to be or not be a certain way...

Jaz said...

Yes, I agree Fury. Most people who get married don't plan on cheating, and I think Brooke wrote that in her original post. I guess most women (and some men) always wonder why men who know they're gonna cheat get married anyway. I think like Brooke said though, like Rameer and Jay said, it's because it's what they're expected to do as a "good citizen." Not because they necessarily WANT to.

Stef said...


men are wired to cheat, its a fact. Whether you DO or not is something else.

Anthony Otero said...

@stef - we are not wired to cheat. We choose to or choose not to.

DMoe said...

@Stef -

There are good men who are successful (and in his position) who do not get down like that, or cheat at all. That's my opinion.

Clearly, Tiger hasn't learned alot of the things mentioned on this thread.
Without a doubt, Tiger played himself and his brand.

Answer to your question on why he "flew them around?"

Uh, cuz he could...After all, it ain't trickin' if ya got it...lol.

But your right, we dont know what he was saying or not saying, but I know Maxwell ain't gotta "say" nothing for 7 chicks to be lined up either.

That's just what I meant by "he's Tiger"...lol.

As for B's redirect on monogamy, (imo) it takes a certain level of love and devotion for any human being. You can work at it, and you can be...

Its certainly possible, but a man who has had no/bad examples (and/or training) of what it takes to be committed will have trouble.

The same may go for a woman who may have seen bad relationship examples, or some other circumstances with males in her life early on also.


Rameer said...

"Ya'll know how ya'll do."??

Stef - with all due respect, please don't do that. While I can agree with you about the grimey nature of some men - hell, a good number of men, too - saying that truly makes it seem as though you have an ax to grind with men and that you think of us all in negative terms. And while I'm not accusing you of that, if it IS true, that would simply make you bitter - not factual.

I've known plenty of men on importance, and seen tons of gold-diggers, freakazoida and skeezers come out the woodwork to be amongst them - but I don't attribute that behavior to ALL women, nor do I say that's "how Y'ALL do". Cuz I know plenty of women who don't act that way.

If you know a proliferation of men who act a negative way...I would suggest surrounding yourself with different men. But let's leave the "y'all" out of it - it doesn't reflect on me or many of the men on this blog.

Stef said...

@Dmoe, since your quoting songs, "they say it ain't trickin if you got it? THEY LYIN!" it IS trickin, cuz these hoes ain't your woman! Trick on your WIFE, not these hoes who are content to sleep with you cuz your "Tiger."

And its not about who you can get to sleep with you. Hell, you don't have to be "Tiger" or "Maxwell" to get a woman to sleep with you and some "regular" dudes don't have to spend money to get a woman to sleep with them either. They know that better than "Tiger" does!

Nobody is talking about sex. I'm talking about the people who are crying foul that these women are talking. Like there's honor among hoes?! Why would we expect different? They're sleeping with a married man and hope to gain some way from it. No matter WHAT he IS or ISN'T telling them, they're in it for something other than love, so why we're mad they're speaking out now is ridiculous to me. That's what I'd expect a hoe to do.

@Rameer, I didn't mean YOU. I meant you know how ya'll do that CHEAT. If you don't cheat, I wasn't talking to you.

@Latinegro, you ARE wired too. Even your boy Rameer said so. It's biological. You can CHOOSE not to because we are as Rameer said "higher intelligence" beings. Men may fight that instinct, but the instinct is there. For ALL male animals.

Anthony Otero said...

@stef ok genius of biology. what are women hard wired to do?

because if you believe that then you must believe in other stereotypes since after we are all animals

Jaz said...

I have to say, I agree with Stef on this one. Why do side chicks have to play any "position." If you cheat, you run the risk of getting caught. And if you knowingly cheat with a married man, then why are we wondering where these women's "morals" and "loyalties" lie? I'm sure there are side chicks who have benefitted from being quiet, like Rameer's example of Michael Jordan. But thaat makes them "better" than these other women? Like that Ashley Dupre chick speaking out about how at least she had the "morals" to not want to "hurt another human being." Really?

So sleeping with someone's husband is not wanting to hurt another human being? How about hurting the man's wife? How about hurting the man's family? They're not thinking about them. They're thinking about themselves. They're hurting people, even if it may be considered "indirectly." So no, I'm not surprised these women are speaking out now because they're selfish, and always have been. None of these women love Tiger, and he doesn't love them. So to me, unless you accidentally fall in love with a married man and it's "complicated" - then no "rules" apply. The men who are complaining that these side chicks are out of control are probably men who condone cheating on some level and it's a double standard.

That's like Shaq's dumb ass with his text messages to HIS side chick talking about "you cheated on me with old boy." Really? SHE cheated on YOU, but YOU have the wife!!?? What sense does that make?? If you're cheating, all bets are off and there are no "rules."

DMoe said...


Stef - I love it, cuz "throw it in the bag (remix)" is my joint...

My quote was really a joke, cuz all of this is in fun, but...

The point was about what he had to "say" or "do"...All i was saying was "he's Tiger" - he doesn't have to say/do what the regular dude may do/dont do. He doesnt "have" to say/do anything. And your right when you say "some regular dudes don't have to spend money to get a woman to sleep with them either."

I also agree - this equation
($$$ = azz) doesn't compute for every guy, but let's not sit here and think it doesn't close some deals.

As for Tiger, he walks in the place, and he (obviously) got to pick and choose whatever. Take the money out of it. He added that and let's take that for whatever it is.

Chicks dig alpha males. Of course, there are exceptions and speaking generally, but there's also a reason why the starting QB on your high school football team kept a bunch of chicks flocking.

Tiger would be example numero uno.


Stef said...

@Latinegro, why are you just asking ME and not Rameer or Jay, who have both said what I said. This is like grade school biology.

And since you asked, here's your answer. Women are wired to have babies with the ALPHA MALE. It's basic survival of the fittest. We all go after the Alpha Male because he's supposed to be the strongest, so that will ensure our offspring are strong and survive. The Alpha Male's job is to procreate with as many of the female species as possible. We are wired to have babies by ONE male, while the males are wired to have babies with MANY females. It's your basic male instinct to do so.

But as human beings, we can think and choose to go against those instincts. Me saying men are wired to cheat doesn't mean that all DO. I think that's where you're getting it twisted. Human beings can make a choice because we can think, we have free will. So while I'm references our basic animals instincts, there are some who fight against them. But that doesn't change that fact that monogamy for men isn't natural.

Stef said...

@Dmoe, I don't know why we're going back and forth, cuz you're changing subjects and arguing points I'm not even making. If you back thru my comments, I've said I'm not mad at Tiger, I never said he HAD to do anything, even tho he HAS, which makes him stupid. All I said is we don't know what he was or wasn't saying. Just because he doesn't have to doesn't mean he didn't...and he's already proven he's not that bright, so we can't even give him the benefit of the doubt. It's all a bunch of what if's and he played the game and got busted. My only issue is when people say his side chicks acted out of line, cuz they're not obligated to do ANYTHING but look out for self since that's all they were doing in the first place.

Annamaria said...

I'm going to say I agree with Ant...
I don't think anyone is hard wired to cheat. It happens because people make that choice. And I also feel like men do get a bad rap because it comes out more often but don't get it twisted there are some GRIMMEY ass women also...
Shawnie O'Neil bought her jumpoff a condo with Shaq's money. BUT we only care that he cheated.
David Paterson's wife had one or two affairs of his own BUT we concentrated on his skeleton's..
There are some married women out there that would make Tiger look like a saint. But we don't hear about their shit & if it came out we wouldn't give her half the grief Tiger's nasty ass is getting...
Let's say 10 men came out saying they were hitting of Jada Pinkett-Smith??? Would we be mad as mad at her OR would we wonder what Will wasn't doing??

At the end of the day I (cause I can only speak for myself) will get married because I love that person (Austin...Just in case anyone was wondering..LOL) and want to be with him & no one else. And if that every changes then it's my job as a grown up to come to him first before anything & address the issue or situation.

Stef said...

Annamaria, believe that if you want. But it's BIOLOGY. I think you're confusing our natural instincts with the choices we make. Stephanie has said it's scientifically proven that monogamy is not natural. Fury, Rameer, Jay, they've all said it. Why? because it's the TRUTH.

But if you love someone and CHOOSE to be faithful to that one person, then you're doing what Rameer and Fury said...choosing to be faithful because you think it's worth it. Just because it's not natural doesn't mean you can't do it. And yes, women cheat, but we're not biologically programmed to. And most women cheat out of an emotional need, not a physical one. A man can love you and still cheat to fulfill his physical need, but women mostly cheat out of an emotional need. If you don't believe it, then that's like saying you don't believe the earth is round. Both have been scientifically proven.

Anthony Otero said...

I think many of you have this all twisted. Being attracted to the opposite sex does not equal being hard wired to cheat. That is an ignorant statement (no matter who said it). That is like saying black people are hard wired to like watermelon. It is stupid.

If I sat here and said women are hardwired to be baby making machines and to be dominated by the ALPHA MALE then I would be getting my ass handed to me right now.

There are matriarchal cultures out there where the woman is the head of the people and family and the alpha male does not exist. There are animals where the female rules all. So don't tell me that we are hardwired to do shit.

Being humans we choose what we do...right or wrong. It may be in our nature to go against the grain or maybe it is in our nature to learn lessons the hard way. It is called life and we learn and evolve from it.

Brooke said...

I have to say, I agree with science. Sorry Ant and Annamaria, but there's just too much data out there to support it...and it is basic biology...survival of the fittest. It's true.

But we can make our own choices about what is right for us and fight those natural instincts. Rameer is right, that's what separates us from other animals - cuz that's really what we are - our ability to think and reason.

And it's possible to believe there is a man out there who would never cheat. Not because he's not an animal with those instincts, but because something else matters to him. I believe my brother-in-law would never cheat on my sister. We've had this conversation before. He told me that he's not afraid to cheat because of getting caught, or what my sister would do to him. He's afraid of what GOD will do to him if he does.

In his case, his religious beliefs are so strong that he'd rather fight any natural instincts he has because he believes God is greater than flesh and his reward will be given in heaven for living his life a certain way. That's where his integrity lies. So yes, we all can make choices, and we do everyday...I guess it's just a matter of what is important to you at the time. Every circumstance is different.

Annamaria said...

Like I said that is MY opinion so I will continue to believe what I want to believe...And although I enjoy conversation on the blog with Fury, Rameer and everyone else NONE of you are scientist or have quoted scientific studies soo until you do I'm going to keep believing what I believe.. And probably still after..LOL

And YES there are women who cheat just for shits & giggles. THE SAME WAY there are some men who cheat for emotional reasons. And there are some men & women who don't cheat at all...

We can argue this to the end of the day...

NOW in accordance with Brooke's question.. Most of you that believe "MEN" are hard wired to cheat are either married or hope to get married one day... IF you do truly believe that then WHY BOTHER????

If I believed that I wouldn't even try...What would be the point???? Are you going to say that although you believe all men are hard wired to cheat you think you are going to get the ONE man on the face of the planet that is going to resist that urge?? REALLY???

Stef said...

@Latinegro, okay, believe what you want. But it's not ignorance, its science that you just choose not to believe.

And let me ask you this, since I've read some of your blogs in the past. Have YOU ever cheated on YOUR wife?

Anthony Otero said...

@stef that is very personal question but for the sake who I am and the fact that I am honest, I will answer.

I have cheated on my wife and I am not proud of it at all. That does not mean that I was hard wired to do it. I fell in love with another woman if you must know. I do not have 10 other chicks on the side.

Judge me if you want but I still disagree.

Annamaria said...

@Brooke no need to apologize everyone is entitled to believe what they want... Regardless of what the Scientific council on the DNA of Men tells me..LOL.
I choose to believe there is good & bad in everyone and your relationship is what you make of it..
DO I believe that it can't happen to me....NO I do believe it can happen to anyone.. NOT because it's in his DNA but because it can happen to anyone...I just try to be the best partner I can be & hope for the best. If it happens I gave it my best. If it doesn't than I'll give Austin props for beating science...LOL

Stef said...

Like Brooke said, her sister has a man that she believes will never cheat based on his own personal beliefs. IF that's true, she chose her husband wisely. AGAIN, like I've said a billion times, saying a man is wired to cheat doesn't mean he WILL. I believe Brooke's brother in law is wired to cheat - meaning it's a man's natural instinct - but that doesn't mean he WILL. His religious beliefs are strong enough to keep him from succumbing to those instincts, and women hope to find a man like THAT. Be clear on what I'm saying - being wired to cheat doesn't mean you will, I'm simply saying men are. I'm not a lawyer either, but I know what the law is. I don't have to be a sceintist to know that the earth is round, I just need to learn it, just like I don't need to be a scientist to know that male animals are wired to spread their seed and populate the earth. If you don't believe science, then fine...don't. I do.

Anthony Otero said...

oh..yeah lets not forget that women do cheat...but since they are not hard wired to do it, that is not an issue..watever..

Stef said...


So you're gonna sit here and argue that men aren't wired to cheat, but you cheated?


But hey, not judging. You fell in love with someone else. Are you with that someone else now? I'm inclined to say no since you were on here on RTT talking about you ended your "streak" not too long ago. And you not having 10 women doesn't make you any better than Tiger....or worse for that matter.

Tell me, the woman you ended your "streak" with...do you love HER. Or was that simply a "physical" need? Now we're getting somewhere.

Anthony Otero said...

@Stef listen to your judging ass!

First of all. As I said in my original response and other responses after...the problem people settle too quickly and it is in our human nature to learn the hard way. I was not ready for marriage and I can admit that.

Secondly, it is none of you business who I sleeping with now. I do not claim to be better or worse than anyone. But I do not sleep around with just anyone because that is not who I am.

So do me a favor...when you live a perfect life. You let me know instead of judging people or situation you have no information on.

Annamaria said...

@Ant: have you gotten a DNA test to make sure you aren't hardwired?????? LMAO

Sorry I couldn't resist....

Anthony Otero said...

lol @Ana...i know right. Maybe my DNA will come up positive for ASSHOLE...lol

Stef said...

You can say you're not saying you're better than anyone else, and I didn't say you were or not - but once you say you don't have 10 chicks on the side, you ARE comparing yourself to others.

And I'm not judging you. You can say I am, but whatever. And I don't live a perfect life either, and never said I do. But I'm not going to argue against science talking about men aren't wired and can make choices, when you made a certain choice yourself. I'm just asking questions since you want to disqualify my beliefs. You don't have to answer and it's not any of my business. I was just wondering. Be easy.

Anthony Otero said...

@stef, we will have to agree to disagree

Stef said...

Yes, we will.

The Fury said...

I know more women that have cheated on their husbands than husbands that have cheated on their wives. Are they the ALL exception? Are they ALL hardwired differently than all other women...

Or are women just more secretive about there "transgressions"?

Jay said...

Good discussion today Brooke!

And I agree, I believe in science on this one. It's really just a matter if you believe humans are so evolved that science doesn't play a part. If you consider yourself a highly evolved human being that can resist your natural instincts, then rock with that. Nature is nature, but some believe humans are so evolved past their animal instincts that they couldn't possibly succumb to their primal desires. To each his own.

But like Stef was saying, just because everyone has a natural instinct doesn't mean they give into it. I think some have lost sight of that...and we as humans do have a choice. Some choose to give in to that need, others don't. That doesn't mean that need or desire or temptation or instinct isn't. I think that's all she was saying. Some hear "wired" and think that's a weakness. It's not, it's natural instinct used to advance our survival. Sounds animalistic but it's true. We just hope to be more "evolved" than this.

Stef said...

so wait Fury, you went from saying that monogamy was invented by man, and it's not natural to saying now that women are predestined to cheat than men are? Fuck outta here. Was everyone absent the day they taught biology in biology class? Women are predesposed to seek out the alpha male, alpha males are predesposed to spread their seed. Not all do, but that's our predisposition. I understand choices (thanks Jay), but we can go with or against that.

And I know more men who have cheated than women...so maybe in your circle, that's different, but I think we did this by the REAL big numbers...statistically, we'd fing that what I say is true.

Anonymous said...

Great Topic B!
Glad u r feeling better!

Now...We are ALL (male and female) 'hardwired' with feelings and desires. Men are definitely designed with the need to procreate..shew..Testosterone is a powerful chemical that keeps us wondering where and what will we fertilize next...lol..just like animals. However we as humans are suppose to be more than animals. Women are 'hardwired' to be caring, desire children emotional security..etc and to answer your question brooke..Yes. Even though we are 'hard wired' to do something doesn't mean that we do it. Marriage is designed to address these desires we just have to be mature/disciplined enough to stay in the pocket of what the covenant requires. Even though we are 'hardwired' we all have the ability to choose. And the choices we make are usually based on what we believe in. Hopefully at the moment of choice, what we believe in, is greater than what we want. Hopefully the 2 are the same but most of the time they are not. We can believe in Marriage but want affection from someone else...we can believe in love but want to hate..we can believe in peace but argue all the time.. Marriage works when what u believe in(principles)matches what u want (pleasure) and when it doesn't, commitment gives you the patience to work on it until it does. Everybody has desires..that's natural..but when you reach a certain level of maturity you gain a mastery of self. and you are no longer driven by your physical desires but by character and principles that you know are greater than a lustful moment. Marriage is greater than a lustful moment, love is greater than a lustful moment. monagamy is possible when maturity, faith and discipline are present. When you grow beyond your physical desires and master them...then you can achieve and receive the higher desires of your heart...i will coin this concept the Pleasure Principle..lol...(Thanks Janet) It's your boooooy.

Stef said...

Thanks anonymous, that's what I was saying. Instincts are there, it's just a matter of if we choose to ignore them. Men procreate and women nurture. It's a biological fact. Some resist that, some don't. That has ALWAYS been my point.

Brooke said...

Great response Zay, and I completely agree!

Anonymous said...

I'm really late to this discussion, but Stef, you're right. They're throwing you under the bus because they believe that the instincts you speak of that all men and women have are weaknesses like Jay said. But like the other anonymous said, we all have these instincts, we just act against them if we choose to. Testosterone means we men want to sleep with alot of women and fertilize them...we're no different than other male animals in that regard. But what DOES make us different is our ability to choose what we do with our instincts. Trust me, if I put ya'll asses out in the woods like Castaway, your natural instict to kill for food and hunt, etc. would come out. That's no different than our need to procreate.

But most civilized people can act against those instincts and suppress those desires based on what's important to us. But Stef is right, just because we can act against them doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe some of us just don't want to hear the truth when it comes to what we are predisposed to do because it sounds negative. And she never said it was negative, she just said it was what we are predetermined to do.

The Fury said...

@Stef Sorry but I wont fuck outta here...LOL

I didn't say women are more predestined to cheat. I said I know more women that have cheated. Marriage and monogamy was created by man. We nuture it, make vows, fight to be married to whichever gender we want. But what you guys are saying about Alpha Males and science goes with what I am saying.

And if the women go after the Alpha Male do they switch (like Lions, Gorillas and crocodiles do) when a stronger Alpha comes along and takes over? Would they then nurture the children of that Alpha Male as well as their former?

My saying monogamy isn't natural wasn't against monogamy.

I'm happy Annamaria gives it her best and hopes her husband does the same. That's all you need. That's what it's all about. It's an unnatural concept that we, as Anonymous said, are using our development and maturity to nurture.

Rameer said...

Wow/ Looks like I missed a Battle Royale!

Not gonna add anything, cuz Stef covered it all. And Zay and the last anonymous seem to have hit the nail on the head as well. It is what it is.

Um...go Lakers???

***tries to diffuse tension, grabs top hat and cane, tap dances***

Anthony Otero said...

Look, maybe I am wrong..and if i am then I am. I am not too prideful admit that. It wont be the first time and it will not be the last.

I am not one to think that we all fit into a category. Maybe I am hard wired to fight this type of thinking.

Stef said...


I actually think women cheat because they either DIDN'T get with the alpha male and then find a chance too when a bigger one comes along, OR they DO get the alpha male and are surprised when he isn't affectionate or gives them what they want. Alpha Males are supposed to hunt and protect, not lay up with you and cuddle. So when they don't get that emotional need fed, then they may look for a weaker male who can provide that. I don't think all women cheat with other alpha males. But of course you'll say that the women you know who have cheated DID go for the other alpha male - which to me would mean that the man they DO have ISN'T the alpha male.

Either way, your original question was if women are wired differently and the answer is yes. You and I seeem to be saying the same thing and I think you answered your own question.

I'm just glad there are some people on here who were in school the day they taught all this stuff :)

And I'm not against monogamy. Everyone is treating me like what I said about nature and science wasn't true. It IS true. But as humans we can work against that. I never said we couldn't. I think monogamy can exist, it's just not natural.

Brooke said...

Rameer, you stupid :)

Brooke said...

BTW, just heard that Gatorade dropped Tiger...

The Fury said...

@Stef...Rameer is pretty nice with that soft shoe ain't he?? Damn brother you part Nicolas brother?

Stef, we agree. I may have been sitting next to you in class when they taught this alpha male stuff. Yeah, the women I know that have cheated went for other Alphas or more cuddly dudes. Mixed bag. I'm not sure if I'm Alpha, but I lay it the hell down like Alpha to Omega...ahem

I digress...

I was just wondering if those women were hardwired to cheat or just to find the Alpha. I can't and don't believe all women cheat because it's emotional. Some women want big stiff dick and passion

Great topic Brooke....And look at me, I was around all day stirring the pot.

(beating my Alpha chest for the ladies)

The Fury said...

Fuck Gatorade! That's why I drink Vitaminwater or Snapple when I'm fkn. LOL

Stef said...

@Fury, again, I don't think women are wired to cheat, but both men and women do it. Women are programmed to have one alpha's child, while alphas need to procreate as much as possible. The sad part is, if this alpha male finds himself in a relationship, then he would need to cheat in order to do that, IF he decides to. Relationships go against a man's natural urge, and supports a woman's natural urge. I think most women would be happy if the alpha male was satisfied with just THEM. Most times, they're not though, thus all this emotional turmoil that's going on now.

That's not to say women don't cheat, I just think we're not predisposed to it. And I think men and women cheat for different reasons for the most part. Yes, some want the dick (because the weak man at home ain't doin it right - he's NO alpha male) - but because women are emotional creatures, we MOSTLY cheat for emotional reasons. And because men are physical creatures, they MOSTLY cheat for physical reasons. That't not to say some men don't cheat for emotional reasons - like Latinegro said he cheated for - but MOST don't. I'm simply talking stats here. There are exceptions to every RULE tho.

Brooke said...

I know, Fury was around ALL DAY! Wow :-)

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