Friday, December 11, 2009

TGIF like a mugg!

Even though I was out Monday, this week was forever!!! Looking forward to doing nothing but putting up my tree and watching football this weekend.

Now, instead of doing my Friday Sexy Survey, I'll ask a question of the day.

Stef brought this up yesterday, so I decided to make it the topic for today's blog, even though I've written about this before. On the radio yesterday morning, the talent was discussing who is at fault if someone goes through their partner's cell phone and finds out they've been cheating on them. This of course was brought on by El Tigre's situation and the voicemails and text messages that are continuing to be released to the media.

Now, of course, El Tigre's situation is extreme - but all of know someone who has gone through someone else's phone. Some of you have done it yourselves. My question to you all is - Are you wrong for going through someone's personal things EVEN IF you find the incriminating evidence you were looking for? Or are you only wrong IF YOU DON'T find anything?

Most women have a 6th sense with these things - a gut feeling when something is wrong. I'd even venture to say that some men have it as well. Some behavior doesn't require either gender to have secret powers of intuition - if your boo is taking his or her phone with them everywhere they go (including the bathroom) and sleeps with it under the pillow...then chances are, something ain't right.

But does THAT behavior give you probable cause to find out for yourself what's really going on? Or should you simply deduce from their behavior that something is off and you don't NEED the evidence?

Let's say you ARE messing around on your girl or your man and they DO find damning evidence - is it STILL wrong for them to have gone through your stuff...even if you're guilty? I had a guy friend break up with his girlfriend on the spot when she confronted him about emails and text messages she found. He said SHE couldn't be trusted. Really? He said that if she had found the evidence "a different way" (even though I don't see how else she could have), THEN he would be wrong. But because it was an "illegal search," all incriminating evidence was "inadmissible" - even though he was doing dirt on HER. Unbelievable.

Clearly he had been watching too much Law & Order, and he successfully flipped the script and left her feeling like she was a terrible person for invading his privacy. To this day, he still insists he wasn't at fault.

Now, mind you, she had asked him prior to going through his things if he was cheating on her - which he promptly denied. Without any evidence besides the gut-wrenching feeling in the pit of her stomach, she had no choice but to believe him. Or so she thought anyway.

So what is a girl or guy to do if they suspect infidelity but can't get access to or doesn't want to go through someone's things?

My answer?

Trust your instincts. Usually it won't steer you wrong, and the feelings you're having are usually brought on by something.

Now, if you're a naturally insecure person who has trust and self esteem issues, then maybe you could be paranoid. But if your mate all of a sudden keeps better tabs on his or her cell than the CIA, suddenly becomes secretive or argumentative, noticeably changed their behavior, the way they dress, how you have sex, or even if they are EXTRA nice out of nowhere and they seem like they're guilty about something - then chances are they ARE doing something wrong, and that's all you need to decide if you want to continue in the relationship or not. Not all guilt requires evidence or a confession. Sometimes your gut is enough.

But if you're someone who just needs to see or find out for yourself - then be prepared to do something with the evidence you find...because you WILL find it. And that means if you confront someone, be ready to for them to try and flip it on you and call you out for going through their things. If you plan on ending the relationship, then you probably don't care if they do all those things anyway. They will either try to make it your fault, or try to lie to get out of it - all of which means nothing if you're ready to bounce.

But if you're not sure you would end the relationship - no matter what you find - then keep what you find to yourself. Don't tell him or her, and don't tell your friends or family. If you find that someone was doing dirt but you want to stay and try to work on the relationship, then telling someone else what you found will mostly likely make you look foolish for staying. Nothing is wrong with fighting for your relationship if you feel it's worth it - but do so quietly.

Personally, I've never gone through a guy's phone. Every time I found out a man was cheating on me, the information literally just fell into my lap. I didn't have to do any snooping. It was as if God said, "Hey, let me show you something." Everything that's done in the dark will eventually come to the light. I truly believe that, so I feel no need to snoop through anyone's stuff. Some could view that as naive. But if I suspect something is off, and that feeling in the pit of my stomach keeps growing stronger and stronger, then that's all I need. I trust it, and I trust myself.

Tell me what you think - is some snooping justified? Or is it always wrong?

Let's go!



Pretty Ricky What Dey Call'em said...

First bitches

Pretty Ricky What Dey Call'em said...

Hmmmm... this is a tough one. But sometimes your gut instinct is the best one. So I agree with you Brooke...if your insides are telling you that someone is cheating ...usually they are right. Be out.. because there is obviously something wrong. Or if you're just insecure about everythig.... BE OUT!!! Cuz you're obviously not ready for a mature relationship.

-V- said...

If you've got nothing to hide, you have a right to be upset if she's going through your stuff.

However, this usually only happens when the guy's creepin' ... or planning to creep. Women are like Doberman's this way.

I think it's pretty simple:

- If you've committed yourself to a monogamous relationship, KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS.

Stef said...

@V - that goes without saying, don't cheat! But if you do, and I find out by going through your phone - am I wrong??

I don't know about this one. I can say I've gone through a guy's phone, and I didn't feel I was wrong because I found out what he was going. This is why I wanted to see what Brooke's opinion on this was. I didn't notice any change in behavior, nothing really seemed wrong with the relationship per se, but I just felt something. Can't explain it. I looked, and there it was. I did'nt have to go back far, it was the first message that busted him.

When I told him what I saw, he did exactly what Brooke said, tried to flip it on me saying I couldn't be trusted cuz I went through his stuff. Which was bullshit. But I ended it anyway, so all that flippin on me didn't mean shit to me. I still don't think I was wrong.

So I agree, if your gut tells you something is off, then trust it - cuz a dude ain't gonna admit NADA!

Dr. PLJ said...

I see this all the time in my private practice with couples who are trying to heal from infidelity. While I personally don't condone snooping, if it happens, I like to address the overall process of how the couple got to this point and go from there. Why did s/he feel the need to go through his phone to begin with? What subtle messages has s/he sent that communicates an air of mistrust? The answers to those questions reveal a lot to me about the couple dynamic and provide insight into areas the couple needs to discuss.

That's just my two cents from a clinical perspective.

AH said...

OOO-OOO-OOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Think I've talked about this before....I found out some ish on this guy I was seeing because he left a card from some female on the fridge. Now...the innocent part about it was that it looked like a kid's card. So one morning as I was raiding the apple juice, I was like " cute--his niece sent him a card". Went to look at it and low and behold....obviously this person left him the card THAT week (wont go into the details). Our relationship ended. Now, my issue was...were we in a committed relationship, no but respect my feelings--as he (so he said) wanted us to be a couple. I was the one that was hestitant. But you KNOW I'm coming over on said day, you know I'm staying over, you leave work early to clean your crib but you leave THAT ish up??? OH HAYLE NO!

What got me is he went on pontificating that I invaded his privacy and went through his stuff. DUDE, YOU LEFT YOUR ISH ON THE FRIDGE. Wasn't anything on it but the kiddie (not so kiddie) card. CMON SON! I pride myself in not going through any man's stuff. If I do that, that means there's something I dont trust and therefore, I shouldn't be with you. That's just my nervous nellie tendencies.

Brooke said...

So is that to say there are some justifications for snooping? After all, I think curiosity is sometimes simple human nature - and if there's an air of mistrust, then is snooping justified in some cases? Especially if the snooping turns up what you've been looking for all along?

And what I find interesting about those who lie or cheat is that THEY then become suspicious of THEIR partner. Most people who lie, always think they're being lied TO, or people who cheat, always suspect they're being cheated ON. Do you all find that to be the case?

Brooke said...

April, I remember that story! My last question was more for the Doctor :)

And in your ex's case, leaving that card up means it was on display, not hidden. I leave cards out all the time, whether from my birthday, Christmas, whatever, for all to read. You were not snooping, he was just sloppy. And he probably WANTED to get caught on some subconscious level. Either way, it was no excuse to blame you in that instance.

Jay said...

I said it before and I'll say it again - if you get caught cheating, be a man or woman about it. Blaming the other person, even if they DO go through your stuff, makes the offense worse. Because now, not only are they wondering WHY you cheated and probably feel like the other person has something they don't, but now you're making them feel bad for going through your stuff...even though you probably made them feel insecure enough to do it.

I think the most confident of people can be made to feel insecure in a relationship by their partners. When it comes to love, we're vulnerable. So if I'm out doing dirt, then I should expect you to be on to me or notice if I'm doing something out of character or the norm. If you go through my phone and I'm doing dirt, then I can't blame you because I WAS wrong. I DID do something to give you probable cause. Saying that someone else can't be trusted when I'M wrong is being hypocritical...and it's bitchassness at its finest.

If you don't wanna get caught, don't do it. It's when dudes get so arrogant that they think they can do whatever they want and not get caught that they get sloppy - especially when they know they have a woman like you Brooke who they know won't ever go through their stuff.

And you're right, it'll all come to light anyway, so if your gut tells you something, it's usually right.

The Cable Guy said...

Okay, so the woman is only wrong if she DOESN'T find something? That doesn't sound right to me. My phone is my phone, no matter what I'm doing or not doing. If I can't go through your phone, then don't go through mine. If I'm cheating, most likely I'll do something or my behavior will let you know that I am. Maybe men carry their phones around with them because of their snooping women!

Midnight said...

Well I believe in taking responsibilities for my actions so if someon is snooping and they find something then the cheater is WRONG! Straight up, no take your lumps and your consequences. On the other side if someone snoops and DOESNT find anything will that person come clean and say they looked? Because if they do then they have to take their lumps and consequences as well. Its a ugly situation either way so if a person decides to cheat or decides to snoop be prepared for whatever comes back to you. Dont try to flip it on the other person, you know you wrong for what you did.

Stef said...

@ Cable Guy,

If you don't have anything to hide, then why would you care if someone went thru your phone? You don't carry a phone around with you unless you KNOW you don't want her to see something, cuz otherwise you won't care.

And yes, my man CAN go thru my phone, cuz ain't nothing to see. People who don't have anything to hide don't care about stuff like that.

And if you look thru my phone and don't find anything, but then admit it to me later, then we can work to see why you feel insecure. It's not a dealbreaker, but I need to know why you feel you can't trust me.

The Cable Guy said...

If I have nothing to hide, and you're going thru my shit anyway, then it's a problem It means you don't trust me, and if we have trust issues, we need to resolve them BEFORE you go thru my stuff. Tell me why you don't trust me FIRST! Don't just go thru my things. Some women are just nosey, and your curiosity isn't reason enough to go looking thru my phone.

Stef said...

But what if you ARE doing something? Are you gonna admit it BEFORE I'm forced to go thru your stuff? What man or woman usually ADMITS to being unfaithful or untrustworthy?

In Brooke's example, the girl asked dude if he was cheating and he said no. So then she went thru his stuff and found out he was lying, and he STILL blamed her. So you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes, cuz it's a rare dude that just comes out and be like "yeah, I cheated on you, now what." Unless he's an asshole and wants you to break up with him anyway.

Brooke said...

Either way you look at it, both scenarios means trust is an issue - that or insecurity. Obviously the best thing to do would be to discuss it first. But if you feel someone isn't being truthful in that discussion, then all that says is you don't trust the person and maybe should take another look at the relationship or yourself. It probably means it's best not to be in a relationship at the moment - either because someone can't be faithful, something is missing, or someone has trust issues that need to be resolved before getting into ANY relationship at all. Simply feeling like you have to go thru someone's things is an indication of something wrong - whether it's with the relationship or yourself.

Rameer said...

This is a touchy subject.

Personally, I've never been the one to snoop through anyone's phone that I was dating. I've only been cheated on once, and I found it out cuz - as I'm not a liar and only tend to date people who are basically very honest - she told me she did. She felt horrible for having done so, and though she didn't lie about it, she felt she was living a lie by cheating on me. Even after we tried to work it out, I still didn't go through her stuff. It's just not me.

But I know men and women who have done this, and they feel VERY justified in doing so. Some use the same logic that Stef used - if you have nothing to hide, who cares if I go through it? And I DO understand that logic.

My phone is locked. Every phone I've ever had has been. I started doing it eons ago because the children in my family always wanted to play with my phones, so to prevent them from actually calling anyone, I would put auto-lock on. But it tends to work for people - usually women - who may see my phone and want to go through it. No one I date tries to go through it. I've got nothing to hide...but the phone locks.

However, if one was to go through my text messages, one might find some texts that are very sweet that I have saved. Some are from family; some are from close friends. Princess once sent me a text saying she loved me in the sweetest way possible. Now if my girl (who knows Princess and they get along great) was insecure and went through and found that message, she might think I was cheating (if she didn't know Princess). IF she read a text from my little cousin who always leans on me that reads "I'm so glad you're in my life - love you!" - she might think it was some chick I was hooking up with rather than my cousin who've I've always looked out for and who turns to me all the time.

To some degree, I think you SHOULD simply question someone straight up like Captain Cable said. Usually, you can ascertain from that convo what you need to know - you know someone well enough to know if they are being over-defensive, exhibiting unnecessary anger, being secretive, irrational, etc. Just make sure you DO IT IN PERSON. Any time I have to have a serious convo with anyone, I do it face to face. People have "tells" - ways to discern if they're telling the truth or lying (I think there's a show on Fox about this; believe me - it's true). When I went to high school, the Jesuits in my school ALWAYS knew when we were lying. One of them taught me about pantomimes - men have 17, women have 20. If you know some of these and what to look for, in addition to knowing your subject can tell deceit most of the time. But you need to do it in-person to see them and look for these.

I personally don't agree with going through people's things. There's an old saying - "if there's any doubt, then there is NO DOUBT". That means if you doubt someone, then there's no doubt about that person on that subject. If you doubt someone is trustworthy, then there's no doubt you that shouldn't extend yourself to trust them until they prove otherwise.

My 75 cents...if it was cohesive and not rambling.

The Cable Guy said...

Exactly Rameer, just ask me. If I'm lying, you can probably tell. I know some people are good at lying, but like Rameer said, if they have nothing to hide, then they won't be overly upset or defensive. They'll want to make sure you're secure in the relationship if they really care about you and don't want you to suspect them of something they're not doing.

And if you feel you still don't believe me, then bounce. It won't work if you don't trust me, whether I'm doing something or not, so best to end it. Don't lower yourself by going thru someone's things cuz 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Tony said...

This is tough one Brooke.

Ok, when your husband or wife is cheating there is an obvious change in that person. Some people pick it up immediately and others take longer but there is a change. It's almost like a nagging headache, its bothering you but you can't get rid of it.

MOST partners will not admit what they're doing. They figure if you're asking you don't really know. If they hid it in the first place they will hide it until the jig is up.

That means that investigations is the only way to relieve yourself of this "headache." Trust me on this one the need to find the answer becomes a driving force. This person committed to you. They took vows specifically forbidding what you suspect they are doing. The feeling of betrayal is enormous.

Cell phones and computers are the obvious places to look. At the time you don't feel wrong, you just need to know. When you find what you're looking for there is a feeling much like relief even though you can't be relieved to find out that your partner is cheating on you. You feel relieved because the headache is gone! And now you have to deal with the truth.

Now the question is do you confront them immediately or wait. I, stupdily, chose to wait and catch them in their "spot." I don't recommend that shit to anyone! lol!

Short answer Brooke is no, the person who is being cheated on is not wrong for looking. The cheater is wrong for betraying the trust, love and committment of their partner.

To my wife my entire life is an open book and she can look anywhere in it she pleases. I chose her as my wife and, as such, she is a part of me. Thats the way I view marriage and if it can't be that way I can't be a part of it.

Rameer said...

Brother Tony - I truly feel your pain whenever you right about that experience. So much so, I kind of cringe any time you bring it up. That is PAIN, brother.

I write my opinions as my views coming from the perspective of a non-married man. And it changes completely if I think of if I were married. I actually think it IS justified if you are married. Call me hypocritical, but I completely say justified when married and unjustified when not. Why? Cuz when you're not, you can walk away. But married? That bond is much stronger and deeper than being with someone - even if you've been with them a good while. I can't say I could just "walk away" if I were married...cuz even finding it out, I might still want to be with the person.

It's just such a deeper level of connection. So I agree with snooping if one is married - but no if there aren't.

Tony said...

@Rameer - Sorry about that.
I don't anyone to be uncomfortable.

I think you're right though. Had she been my lady instead of my wife; I would have bounced without ever checking her out.

Brooke said...

When you break it down like that Tony, it DOES make sense, or justified, to look. I guess since I'm not married, it's hard for me to think from that angle.

But you're right, if you're married, your life SHOULD be an open book to the person you're married to, and vice versa.

I know some married folks who still say that you should respect a person's privacy. If that is true, what is considered "privacy?"

Jay said...


Man, I look forward to your posts on topics like these (and others for that matter) because it offers up a perspective most men and women aren't used to discussing - which is when men are cheated on, how we react to it, and a man who STAYED. Most of us men let our pride get in the way when our lady steps out because women are supposed to just be with us - OUR woman...nobody else's. To stay because you love someone is a personal choice, and one that has worked out for you. You give us the meaning of commitment - two people willing to do what it takes to work on and hopefully strengthen a relationship. I commend you on that, because I think it takes true strength to do that. Forgiveness isn't always so easy.

And as for the headache, you're right. Finding the answer for some people is so that THEY don't feel like they're crazy for their suspicisions - because most likely if you DO ask someone if they're doing something, they'll lie and say no and make you seem like YOU'RE the delusional one. It's easy to second guess yourself when you love someone, so the need to find out is not necessarily because you need evidence to "bust" them, but just so you know that you can trust your own instincts if someone is making you feel like you're crazy. I totally get that, because it can get confusing. Thanks for that insight.

Tony said...

When there is trust there is privacy or Mutual respect for property. When that "headache" starts that mutual respect for property and trust leaves quickly.

I found that those who insist on privacy USUALLY have something to hide, ESPECIALLY when they demand that privacy from their spouse. Just saying.

Tony said...

@Brooke - It's hard to see things from a perspective that you never experienced. I NEVER could see things the way I do until it happened to me.

@Jay - Thank you!

Stef said...


I don't want to be in your business, but have you ever cheated before? On your wife or girlfriend? I only ask, because some men and women can forgive when it's been done to them because they did it to someone else. But I also know some men that even though they may have cheated in the past, they STILL can't forgive when a woman does it to them. It's a double standard, but like Jay said, some men can't bear the thought of their woman being with another man (let alone actually SEEING IT) even if they've cheated themselves.

You think that's true?

Brooke said...

Tony, that's why I never say never. You can't always know what you'd do in any situation until you live it.

Tony said...

@ Stef

No I never did cheat on either wife. I got married young so I never really had serious girlfriends to cheat on. I considered it seriously after I caught my wife but didn't. I figured it would only cause more drama.

I agree that men have a hard time dealing with their wife's infidelity but I think it is because (right or wrong) men tend to see women as possessions.

A lot of men would have a hard time seeing another man riding off in his ride too!

There is a double standard in the cheating game where men expect forgiveness but would never dream of forgiving.

Rameer said...

Tony - no need to apologize. I'm just saying...I feel the pain in that experience.

@ Stef - when I was cheated on, I had never cheated, either. So I have no clue if it's easier to forgive if you yourself are a cheater...though I know that question was meant for Tony.

My phone may lock, but I'm on it all the time. Sometimes my girl will pick it up to play with it before the autolock kicks in; sometimes I'll play with her phone (I have a Sidekick, she has an Iphone. Neither one of us can stand the other's phone, thus we're always messing with each other's).

I've never really thought about if she's going through the phone...mostly she'll go on the Internet or play the video games on it. Sometimes, she'll go through the pics saved to the phone, as I tend to save funny pics I use to talk trash in sports and I MMS them to friends. Neither one of us cares if the other grabs our phone; like has already been said - we have nothing to hide.

But the phone DOES lock. Lolz!

Brooke said...

I've had guys pick up my phone and try to go thru it, and they watch me as they do it, as if they're expecting me to jump or something.

While I think it's a ballsy thing to do, I don't really care. I don't keep alot of texts and things like that. I only keep them if they contain information - like a number or address I need. Other than that, I get rid of stuff quickly, just because I hate clutter on my phone. And the only pics you'll find are of kids. I have pics of my nephews, my Godson, my friends' kids (I have ALOT of Sophia :-) so I could care less what you see. And as for a phone book, I have hundreds of they could be anybody.

The main reason I don't care? I'm single! I am unencumbered by husband or child - so I answer to no one but myself. There's no reason for me to be jumpy cuz I can do as I damn well please. Why people expect me to "jump" is beyond me...and what they expect to find is a mystery. The only way I'd be jumpy is if I'm in a relationship and I'm doing something I have no business.

Do you find that one sex is "smarter" about cheating than another? Are women "better" cheaters, or are men?

This might be another blog for next week :-)

Stef said...

I think women are smarter about cheating, if that makes sense, only because you have to be a good liar to cheat. They go hand in hand. Men lie alot, but women are better at it. Well, I guess I shouldn't speak in general terms, but that's how I feel.

A woman will know what questions you're going to ask and have the answers ready, and have all our girlfriends on board and can predict your every move and thought. Men tend to just lie as a knee jerk reaction without thinking it thru. Neither is justifiable, but I just think that women cover their tracks better.

Of course at some point, like Brooke said, the truth comes to the light. And not all women are smart about it...but if I had to answer your question, I'd say women cheat "better."

Jaz said...


I'm so happy you two are working through it. So many times I think people give up on their relationships too soon. You don't hear about people fighting for their marriage anymore. Divorce seems like such an easy out.

I agree with Stef, I think women don't get caught lying and cheating as much simply because I think we're a bit more intuitive and can think a few steps ahead. Of course not ALL women are good at this, as if that's something to take pride in, but I think if we had to answer your question Brooke, I'd say women are better at it.

And like Rameer, my phone locks too. I don't keep it locked to hide anything, but because I'm constantly "butt dialing" people :) LOL! But it would be hard for someone to go through my phone cuz it auto locks.

Rameer said...

In a general sense, women are MUCH better liars than men. It's not even CLOSE. Which is why I feel it necessary to always let women know how I feel about lies - even "little ones" - as soon as we begin to get cool with each other. I don't really mess with liars - AT ALL. Not as a close friend. Men...I don't really have to tell them not to lie, cuz they tend to have no reason to lie to me. And they find out my stance soon enough just by being around me.

Women are much smoother cheaters. Cuz men are DUMB. We don't think it through if we're gonna lie and cheat. Seriously- I know mad dudes who have cheated, and when they're caught, I'm always like "dude, do you THINK?!?" They always are very dumb in their lies and deceit. I tend to tell them they deserved what they got, cuz I don't flow with or hang with cheaters - so when I'm around these types of people, they're associates/friends of friends/co-workers/barbershop heads/etc.

Women don't lie more...but they do it smoother, slicker and BETTER. But, as I said - I'm VERY GOOD at telling deceit. If you know what to look for, you can spot it every time. Add in actually knowing a person pretty well, and you can tell if a person is being completely truthful like a good 80% of the time.

Pantomimes, people. It's your homework assignment for the weekend. Lolz...

Brooke said...

I have to agree with that - I think men lie more, but women lie better. It reminds me of this email joke that was going around, where a woman suspected her man of cheating, and called all his boys to see if her man was at their house the night before. All of the men she called were like, "yeah, he was here last night."

Meanwhile, when the man called all his girl's friends to see if she was there the night before, out of 10 women he called, only ONE had said she was there.

Men don't cover their tracks the same way, and all their boys aren't even smart enough to lie for them or help them out. It's not a bragging point that women are better liars, but I do think it's true.

The Cable Guy said...

I don't get the joke Brooke.

Brooke said...

@Cable Guy,

If you spend the night out somewhere, you can only be in one place at one time. So if 10 dudes say you spent the night at their house the night before, that means you didn't spend the night at ANY of their houses - cuz all of them are lying for you. You can't be at 10 places at one time.

But women will designate a friend to lie for them. If she says I was at Tammy's house, all you have to do is call Tammy. And if you call 10 of her friends, only TAMMY will say she was there...not ALL TEN OF HER FRIENDS.

The fact that you don't get the joke makes me think you'd probably be the dude that gets caught :-) LOL!

(just jokes...well...not really) ;)

Jay said...

Dude, I makin us look bad! LOL!!

Rameer said...

He ain't making US look bad...lmbao!!!

That's just good ol' Captain Cable for ya.

The Cable Guy said...

Okay, I get it, i get it! LOL!!

I don't lie or cheat, so maybe that's why it went by me :)

Stef said...

@ Cable Guy,

No, it's just that men are DUMB like Rameer said! LOL!!

You don't have to be a liar or a cheater to get the joke :)

That was funny :)

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