Monday, December 21, 2009
Happy Snowy Monday...well...here in NYC and most other places in the northeast today. One thing I appreciated about winters in Syracuse when I was in school was how well they cleared off the streets and sidewalks. In Queens...not so much.
Anyway...I got another "Dear Brookey" email on Facebook - this time from one of Ms. Penn's friends. She identified herself as "not one of her 'shallow' friends"...which I thought was cute :-) The timing was perfect, because I didn't have any idea what to blog about today. So, with that said...let's get to it!
Dear Brookey,
My name is Courtney and I wanted to reach out to you for some advice. I am one of Ms. Penn's friends, but not one of her "shallow" friends :-) I thought you gave great advice to her last week, so I thought I'd tell you of my dilemma to see what advice you had for me. I talked this over with Ms. Penn and she gave me her take on it, but we both wanted to see what you had to say.
I've been dating this guy for a couple months. When we first met, I asked all the obligatory questions - are you married?, do you have kids?, etc. He answered "no" to both of those questions. We started going out and one thing led to another.
Fast forward to this past weekend and he's telling me he had to brave the snow storm to go Christmas shopping. When I asked him what gifts he felt were so necessary that he had to go out in a blizzard to get, he said he had to finish shopping for his son. SON?? What son???
When I told him he lied to me about having kids, he said he never said he didn't and that I never asked. I reminded him of our conversation and he said he "must not have heard me." But he DID hear me because if he didn't hear me, he wouldn't have answered me. He THEN told me that asking someone about their kids is a personal question and he wanted to get to know me better before he started divulging information about his family.
I now feel like he can't be trusted and I'm hurt that he lied to me. Having a child isn't a dealbreaker for me, but lying is. The trouble is, I've already really started to like him. What should I do - leave him alone, or continue to see him and get to know his son?
Courtney -
I feel like the answer to this question is easier than Ms. Penn's question last week. I've been through something similar, so I understand where you're coming from. That said, I'd leave him alone. I know this may be easier said than done, but you already said it...you don't trust him, and lying is a dealbreaker for you.
I can understand why a man (or woman) might lie about being married. Clearly, he'd want you to think he was available and is afraid that if you learn he's married, you wouldn't give him the time of day. So I get that. Not saying it's right, but that makes sense to me.
But why a man would lie about his child is something else. Denying a child is just wrong.
I guess they use the same logic about wanting to appear available, or more desirable. There are some women who won't date a man with a child, so maybe he assumed you were one of those women. He may have wanted to make you like him first before he told you, or maybe he wanted to have sex with you and figured he would bed you before you found out. Since you two have taken it to that level already, blurting out that he had to buy gifts for his son probably didn't phase him because he feels that he bagged you already.
Asking someone their marital status or if they have children isn't a personal question - at least not to me it isn't - especially not in the "getting to know you" phase of a relationship. Asking someone if they're "happily" married might be intrusive - or asking how many baby mama's he has might be getting more invasive - but simply asking if he's married or has children isn't. That's a yes or no answer, and it's up to you to decide what to do with that information.
A person who is married or has kids won't be able to hide that for long, so being upfront in the beginning serves in everyone's best interests so that no one wastes their time. If a man or woman refuses to date you because of your marital status or because you have kids, that's THEIR decision...and you have to respect it. Tricking someone into dating you with false information, or attempting to deceive them is wrong - and it could backfire on you.
You didn't mention if he wanted to continue seeing you or not, but I'm assuming he does since you're torn on this issue. But I'd take a step back from him - especially since he lied AGAIN once you confronted him about his lying. He lied, then backpedaled...and it seems to me he can't be trusted and that he isn't mature enough to be honest within a relationship.
He should be proud of his son - and if he had sincere intentions on getting to know you, he would have been honest from the beginning so that he wouldn't jeopardize losing your trust later. Now he has to work to gain it back, which is one of the hardest things to do after you've deceived someone. If you know in your heart that you genuinely don't trust him, then you'll just doubt everything he says going forward - whether you know it or not - and that's not fair to either of you. If he'd lie about having a child, then there's no telling what else he'd lie about. If you've only invested a couple months, I'm not sure it's worth trying to make it work. Cut your losses and bounce.
-b
26 comments:
FIsrt BITCHES!!!
I wanted to be first again!
Great advice Brooke, that's what I said :)
OK on to the topic at hand.... first off Courtney thank you for not being one of the shallow ones..LOL.
Secondly: Run from this man faster than a speeding bullet... I can understand a single parent not wanting to introduce his/her child to a potential love interest right away BUT to deny you have a child is straight up fucked up.... There are no if ands or buts about it. Kids are the greatest gift in the world.. Shoot if you stay still longer than 2 minutes near me you will definitely hear me talking about Miss Sophia. I would never deny her!!! So for someone to deny they had a kid is just sheer nonsense... That being said I do feel that if you are a single parent you shouldn't be introducing your child to just anyone & everyone you meet. To me that person should prove worthy to meet your child..If not we end up with stepparents that beat kids to death like we see on the news & that is just straight nonsense also. There has to be a delicate balance in the situation & it should go slow for the sake of the child(ren) but that is not the case here since the reject denied his son.
Point blank. Run for the hills. And I hope this poor boy has another man in his life that isn't afraid to claim him..
I agree Brooke, she should bounce. This dude is trouble and can't be trusted. He's a loser.
I agree Annamaria, bringing a potential love interest around your child is a judgement call, and THAT is where he should get to know someone first. But to lie about having a child from jump is just grimy. You don't want a man who would deny a child, and that should give you an indication of what type of father he might be to any future kids you plan to have (if you don't have any). I can't answer if he's a good father or not, but he's definitely not a good partner as far as a relationship, because he lied to you..and then tried to cover up THAT lie with another one.
Like Brooke said, cut your losses. This dude isn't worth it.
Dude is trouble, RUN! If he loves his son, he won't deny him. And if he does, sounds to me like he was using the Xmas shopping conversation as a way to tell you, and then tried to play it off later. He's flippin his lying on you, and that's foul. Be out!
Courtney! RUN!!! Dude is a lying piece of crap, and denying his son is the WORST!!!
I don't understand why men do that. I guess women can't do it as much because most times the kid lives with the mother. But still, that's messed up!
And men who lie about being married are worse to me, because they got a wife at home who probably loves them and thinks everything is all good, meanwhile the man is out doing dirt. Or they lie and say they're "separated" when they still live under the same roof. Liars are liars, and I can't stand them all!
Courtney, this guy probably has a wife too! I'd do what everyone else has said - RUN!! You don't want to be with a guy who started off the relationship with a lie, it can only go downhill from there.
I agree Jaz, and I was going to say the same thing - he probably IS married. I was just trying to keep it on topic with the kid - but the sad part is...now we're all doubting him with regard to everything else - as I'm sure you are too. Jaz is right, the relationship can't really go anywhere when it starts off with a lie...a BIG lie at that!
Nuff said!
I can't understand people who deny their children. I agree that extreme caution when contemplating introducing a new "Friend" to ones child is in order; I absolutely disagree with denying my children.
There is no way around knowing that I have children. They are on my wall at work, I don't talk about anything social without bringing them up and I have all five of their names tattooed on my arm!
Run, run , run away like a train running off the tracks! This dude doesn't deserve his children or you!
Agreed completely. Having a child shouldn't even be thought of in the same context of any "dealbreakers".
Great advice Brooke D.
Dmoe
Hello everyone!
Thank you Brooke for your advice. I guess I know all this stuff already, but wanted to see if there was anything redeeming you could offer. I just hate that I like him so much!
Now when I look back on everything, there were random weekends when he wouldn't be available, or some days he had to cancel plans at the last minute, and now I see that it was all probably because he had to be with his son. I wish he would have told me from the beginning, because I've dated men with children before and I had no problem with it.
Since this has happened, I've given him the silent treatment, yet he keeps calling. Only now, he's trying to make it seem like the reason I won't talk to him is because he has a kid, when in fact its because he's a liar. He's trying to make it seem like he didn't tell me because this is the reaction he was afraid of. My reaction isn't to him having a kid, it's to him lying to me about it!
I know that what you said to me is good advice, but I can't help but to feel foolish in this whole situation. How can I avoid this in the future?? Thanks everyone for your feedback!
@Courtney,
Unfortunately, you can't avoid being lied to in the future. If someone decides to be less than forthcoming with you, that's on THEM, not YOU. You asked him the questions and he lied. I can see if you never asked him - even though EVEN then I don't see how a person's CHILD doesn't come up in conversation in 2 months - but you DID ask him.
Nowadays, asking if a person is married or has kids is standard. I don't see why people lie about it anymore, it's right up there with "what's your name?" and "what do you do for a living?" People who have children and date should be used to this conversation - and there are FAR more women willing to date a man with children than who are not. It's almost expected.
Hell, men ask me within MINUTES if I have kids, moreso than they care about my marital status. It's so common now I can't imagine your friend doesn't have enough experience in this area - unless he's married too and hasn't really DATED in a while. Either way, there's no excuse for lying to you about having a son.
It's a shame that these days it seems like we have to do a background check and obtain someone's soc. sec. # just to find out if what they tell us is the truth. But if someone lies to you, it's THEIR fault, not yours. You can't avoid liars all the time, but you CAN decide to leave them alone once you find out what they are. As my grandmother used to say, when someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM.
@ Courtney
Now that you say there were random weekends when he wasn't available and times when he changed or cancelled plans I have to wonder if he is married as well. Just saying.
Such great advice Brooke, I'm going to use your grandmother's saying! Love that!
I agree Tony, that crossed my mind too.
@Tony,
I thought about that too, and I asked him over and over again if there was anything else he was lying about, including being married. But now I don't know. Like Jay said, now I question everything. It's just not worth all the headache, I'm so disappointed.
Capital "A" agree with everyone!
Courtney I've been there done that. He told me after a few drinks that he had two daughters.
Ummmm I thought you had one?
He tried to flip it like your old boy and said, "Nah I told you I had two, one with my wife."
I responded, "One with your who? You said you were divorced."
Nevertheless it kept going from there. I was young and dumb and stayed with this fool. Lie on top of lie and some time later I kicked him to the curb.
He can't be trusted. I share that story to tell you what has been said. You can't avoid being lied too. Its disgusting when someone denies their child!
Pack your bags and run girl, run! You're a diamond and don't deserve to be treated as less!
My two cents from the Greyhound bus heading to DC lol.
@Serena,
Thank you for sharing your story, now I don't feel as bad :) I just can't believe I missed that! How could I not know?
@Courtney
I hate to keep adding to your disappointment here but now that he has slipped up and gotten caught in this lie he WILL NOT admit to any other lies and work that much harder to keep you from catching him again. If he is married you will never find out from him. It's easier to just go your way.
Courtney,
Thanks for sharing your experience with Brookey and crew. I hope this forum helps you find the solution to your dilemma.
I’m usually in complete agreement with the advice that is posted on this blog; however, today is different. I think you should give the brother another chance!
Let me start off by saying that I don’t excuse lying under any circumstance. However, we are ALL guilty of lying for some reason or another. Shit, some of us tell white lies, while some of us lie about EVERYTHING under the sun. Some get busted, while others lie and don’t get caught. In this case he “got got” and he needs to be held accountable. Just do it with an understanding heart. Let him know that you disapprove of his actions. More importantly, you need to lay down the law and make him earn your trust again. Real talk …. he must play by your rules and on your court. If he is not willing, tell him to bounce.
With regards to the guy being called a loser, a piece of crap, and possibly married, etc …. I think some folks are being a bit too critical. The truth is we know NOTHING about his situation. For all we know, he could be a loving caring father who spends a lot of his free time with his son. It is possible that he believed he was protecting his son by not revealing the truth. Again, we don’t know!
I guess the point that I’m trying to get across is that there was a reason for his actions. If you really like the guy, find out what his reason is. If he responds or answers in a way that you deem appropriate, give him a chance. Now I wouldn’t dive right in there. I’d simply take a step back as previously suggested and make him earn your trust again.
That’s just my 2 cents.
@Locksmiff,
That's bullshit. How is he protecting his SON from her by lying about having a son? That makes no sense. You make it sound like she's invested a year or so with this dude, and that would be worse! But it's only been 2 months, why does he deserve another chance?
Locksmiff,
I would agree that some people deserve the benefit of the doubt, but in the case, I find it hard to reward him that. If when she confronted him about why he lied about having a son, his first instinct was to lie AGAIN and say she never asked him, when I'm sure he knows she did. And even if she hadn't asked him - how do you not talk about your SON for 2 months? Most parents I know can't stop talking about their kids - like Tony said. It's a part of who they are.
And THEN he said "I didn't hear you." This dude is lame.
Finally he says that asking someone about their children is a personal issue and that he can't just divulge information about his family to anyone. Well, it's okay to have SEX with her, but not tell her that he as a son? What is more personal than sex? It's very convenient for him to feel close enough to have sex with her, but not tell her that he has a child.
He wasn't forthcoming when she asked him about it again - his first instict seems to be to lie. I agree that we all lie. But I think there's a difference between telling a lie, and being a LIAR. I don't think this guy would know the truth if he tripped over it.
@Locksmiff,
Sorry bruh, but this dude is wack. How are you protecting your son by not revealing that you have one? The only person he was thinking about was himself. Not telling her about his child was immature and selfish, especially if he suspected that she wouldn't talk to him otherwise.
Why I think you might be missing out on something by refusing to date a person with kids, it's THEIR decision. We all have our limits and what we know we can and cannot deal with. He took that decision away from her when he lied, and for that reason alone, he shouldn't be trusted anymore. He didn't say "I was protecting my son" - he said "I didn't hear you" or "I didn't say that." It was lie after lie, and only now that she bounced is he worrying about her feelings. He should have told the truth upfront. He was doing what was in HIS best interests, not THEIR best interests.
He doesn't deserve another chance with her. Maybe he'll learn his lesson for the next woman, but I think Courtney should move on. Relationships that start off this bad are hard to fix...and if all he can think to do is lie, then you don't want to try to "fix" him. Leave him alone.
I agree Jay, this guy is a lying asshole. He tried to flip it on her, and once you do that, then you get no second chance with me.
What is so bad about having a son? The only reason I can think that he didn't want to tell her is because there's a son's MOTHER still in the picture somewhere - whether they're married or not. He must still be dealing with her on some level and he doesn't want to have to answer to that.
Like Jay said, this guy can sleep with you, but not tell you he has a child, KNOWING you asked? yes, there are "white lies" - like "no, that dress doesn't make your ass look fat." And then there are lies like "the baby is yours" or "I'm not married." A lie is a lie, but when you lie about something MAJOR like that, then like Brooke said, there's no telling what else he'd lie about. Do you want to spend your life wondering if everything he says is the truth or not?
Girl, you found out about him early enough where you can move on. Let him be someone else's liar.
is anyone else wondering how old the kid is?
@Stef,
His son is 4.
Thanks again everyone for all of your feedback. I think I always had an idea of what I was going to do, but you all confirmed it. Thanks!
@Locksmiff,
If you had heard the way he kept lying about it over and over, you wouldn't say I need to give him another chance. It was like like was reaching, grasping at straws, when all he had to do was be honest with me. I feel that we have a relationship where I can be approached, and I'm an understanding person. He knows this, yet he lied to me and then lied again to cover it up. Even if I wanted to give him another chance, deep down I just don't trust him and I can't waste any more time than I already have.
Thanks everyone again!
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