Monday, April 6, 2009

Homie, Lover, Friend

Happy Monday!

So, last Friday we talked about "friends with benefits." Let's just say that topic sparked some interesting conversation - both on AND off the blog. So let's keep the party going shall we?

Let me start by admitting that I finally watched a FULL episode of "For the Love of Ray J." Yes, you read right. I watched it. (Su, pick your jaw up off the floor) My friend Su knows how much I detest these ridiculous dating shows on tv - especially the VH1 ones. Flava Flav, I Love New York, Rock of Love...all of them are straight buffoonery to me. But I watched Ray J after Tough Love last night while trying to think of something to blog about.

Ray J eliminated "Chardonnay" (these names kill me). He said they were more "homies" than lovers. He said that he had love for her - not the romantic kind of love...but "family" love. He just wasn't that into her.

Now, the other girls were needy, manipulative...and crazy. But he had a "connection" to them. "Connection" to me translates into "chemistry" - sexual. He might have had some type of physical attraction to Chardonnay, but it wasn't strong enough to the point where he could see himself with her. I'm curious if he really sees himself with ANY of them, but I digress...

Anyway, that got me to thinking. Can you have great sex and great friendship all wrapped into one? I wonder because, like we said Friday, "friends with benefits" would seem to be the ideal situation...right? What is that thing that separates friends from lovers - and romantic feelings? Can you have sex with a friend that you truly love...even if that love is only as a "play cousin?" What makes you consider someone a friend vs. a partner?

It seems the best combination is the "homie, lover, friend" - but is that really hard to come by? I would have put the video up, but I'm not giving R. Kelley's simple ass any more shine than I already have. But the lyrics make sense.

She can kick back with da homies.

She can relate to my sex drive.

Isn't that what we all want? What men want anyway? :-) If we're homies, and we please each other sexually, what lands a woman in the "friend zone?" Usually with women, a man who lands in the "friend zone" couldn't even smell it, let alone get some nooky. But men can get busy with the female homie like nothing. Women catch feelings, men keep it moving. Well...generally speaking.

Or maybe we just THINK that we're the total package. Just because we're friends, can talk about anything, got each other's back and can rock each other's world DOESN'T mean we're exactly what the other person is looking for. Maybe there is some magic list of "non-negotiables" that we don't measure up to completely. What is that "thing" the other person HAS to have in order for us to cross the line from friendship to romantic love?

So, questions to you all:

What makes the perfect "homie, lover, friend?"

Is it possible, or how hard is it, to walk away from someone who is doing you exactly the way you like it?

Why is it so hard to get both good sex and a good relationship with the same person?

Or is it? Do any of you have the perfect "homie, lover, friend?"

Break it down...



Anthony Otero said...


Anthony Otero said...

I dont like Ray J and I cannot believe you watched that show. I was so not gonna watch it with you.

To answer the question, if you get the perfect homie, lover, friend, then you need to keep her. Those dont come along everyday. You are lucky to get that once in a lifetime.

Brooke said...

Yeah, I told you I wasn't gonna watch it after I suckered you into watching "Tough Love" but I never changed the channel. Sorry Ant! At least you kept me company while I wrote the I'm just gonna step back so I don't get tased when Annamaria comes after you :-)

AnaJolia said...

Move out the way B cause he is DEFINITELY getting tased!!!!!BBBBBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Now that I got that out the way NOT sure if I could get busy with someone I liked like family... It would just seem wrong to me. But I think if it was someone who was just cool & chill yeah.

Brooke said...

So makes the guy who's cool and chill and an option for sex NOT be boyfriend material?

Brooke said...

that should have read: "so WHAT makes...."

it's a rainy Monday morning y'all, work with me :-)

Pretty Ricky What Dey Call'em said... I missed Friday's Blog, so I may be repeating myself... but guys typically put someone in the friend zone...if they've tried to get with them and been unsuccessful. Typically, women don't become homies to us unless we've been attracted to them in the past and couldn't manage to get the drawers. That's just how we do! So of course we'd give you a lil something somthing if the time is right.

Anyway, the girl I'm seeing now... we had instant attraction for each other... I put my mac down and now it's all good. But what keeps it interesting and smooth is that... she is actually cool people to. Like we could bug out regardless. What makes it even cooler, is she doesn't crazy expectations. She knows that I am going to think this girl is cute or that girl is sexy... but she knows I'm coming home to her. And I'm the same with her. I let her be the sexy women that she is.

Anyway, I'm rambling. So here is my solution... Role as lover comes first...that's where the attraction comes in... role as homie... that keeps it interesting... role as friend... that makes it last!

Brooke said...

awww sookie B, look at you getting all deep on me! LOL!

But I agree. Is that hard to come by though? Is it really hard for a man or woman to find all three in one person?

Pretty Ricky What Dey Call'em said...

whats so hard about it... if thats what you want go get it. Personally... I can't settle for anything less. (Unfortunately, I have in the past)

My personal opinion is it takes that for a relationship to owrk... but then again..that's what I'm looking for... that's perfect for my personality. But not everyone is looking for the same thing out of a mate that I am!

Rameer said...

I'm usually against those type of shows, but I'm sorry - "For the Love Of Ray J" is the funniest thing on TV next to "Family Guy". I won't MISS an episode...but that's not what the blog is about...

One more thing - I've met and chilled with Ray J. I can confirm he IS keeping it real. He REALLY IS that corny.


I've had Homie/Lover/Friends before. I can't call what it is that won't allow these people to be your girlfriend or boyfriend, cuz everyone is different and has different reasonings for thing. There's no singular answer. I will relate one of my experiences...

I have a woman who I am EXTREMELY tight with. I mean, we would take a bullet for each other. She's one of two females on Earth I've ever been just as tight with as my homies, and feels comfortable rolling with me and my boys and just being one of the crew - but all the while fully aware of being a woman.

When we first met, it was all about attraction. We vibed so quickly and right off the bat, you would think it would be the basis for a great relationship...but, she was just getting over a crazy ex, and I was still kind of soured on having a girlfriend after a break-up with my girlfriend of a few years. But we became sooooooo close, in all aspects.

We eventually fell into the HLF category. We never defined anything, felt no obligation to act like bf/gf - and we could honestly chill and have nothing romantic go on. This went on for quite a while...I'd say years.

We no longer are HLFs - more like homies & friends. But people swear the must be something still going on, cuz we're just as close, and it would seem as though nothing changed. We just decided to end the "lover" part of the relationship, since eventually we decided to truly pursue other people.

I think you CAN have great friendship and great sex and not necessarily be with someone. One thing that may have stopped me from ever pushing the issue is I realize my friend can be somewhat manipulative in a relationship, as I've witnessed. I wouldn't go for that in a relationship. She's not sneaky, just knows how to bend things to get things the way she wants them. But that never came into play with me, cuz we were never bf/gf.

as far as "walking away from someone doing you exactly how you like it" - well, I will say I'm atypical of the majority of men. I could have SUPERHEAD working me every night and I'll still walk away. Growing up in a family of women, I used to hear everything, and one of the things I learned is that women know that they can control a man with the poo-swa. So, I NEVER have allowed a woman make me a slave to sex. No matter how good it matter how much I may want it - I'm not letting myself be compromised or controlled cuz a woman has skills. Not the kid. Never have, never will.

You wanna keep me coming back, the sex doesn't hurt - but it definitely has to be something else. Like intellect, fun, or spontaneity. Knowledge of Self. Or - knowledge and enjoyment of sports...

Brooke - keep watching "Tough Love". That dude is 100% right in everything he says...I think ALL women, single or otherwise, should check that show out.

And as far as Ray J goes - trust you're not the only one who watches it. The episode you watched wasn't one of the funnier ones, but if you had watched previous ones...OH MY GOSH!!! It's milk through the nose funny! And probably has the best soundbites on TV!!!

My two cents.

Brooke said...

The ONLY reason I watch Tough Love is because that guy is being 100% real with these idiot women. He's elbow to the nose blunt, and I like that. Ray J...not sure I'll watch more episodes, although now I want to see how these women act in front of his parents. Ray J is a Herb to me, but the lie detector part kept my attention for a few minutes. I still can't believe I watched a full episode. That show does well in ratings for that network too...guess I missed the good ones.

Anyway, the "homie-lover-friend-with-benefits" dynamic has always interested me. I know so many married people who don't feel like they can just chill with their spouse. I know this one guy who is a SPORTS fanatic! I mean, you can't talk to him on Sundays unless you're talking about football out at a sports bar...and he'd pick me up every week like clockwork. We tailgate, the whole nine. I'd ask why his wife never came with us and he said she hates sports, ALL sports. I was like "how did you marry her?" He said he didn't know. He also said it wasn't just about sports - said it was everything...that he just never considered her one of "the guys" and they never chilled outside of the house.

They're now divorced - and he said that was one of the major reasons why. They were married, but couldn't "hang" sad is that?

Rameer said...

I'm a firm believer in being friends with someone I'm in an actual relationship with...don't believe in that "separation of church and state" crap. My observation - it usually leads to break ups.

My last relationship...didn't last cuz I wasn't able to have her do all the things I like to. Granted, my taste is so diverse and all over the place...but she's was TOO into just doing one thing, and not venturing outside of her safe zone.

Friendship is a MUST. I don't even understand people in relationships who can't be around each other...though I DO understand why most old school Black husbands always had a den to themselves. Lol...

Brooke said...

Well, if I ever get married, my man can have a den...and the whole damn basement for all I care :) As long as I can come down there to watch the game with him :-) LOL!!

I would feel some kinda way if my man was picking up some female friend of his doing what I should be doing. I understand having separate friends and separate lives...but for EVERYTHING?

Most men I who are friends of mine have no problem having me around as one of the guys, and I like that. I'd hope that would be something I could carry over into an actual relationship and still be considered very much a woman like you said Rameer.

phillygrl said...

quick cool UNLESS one or the other wants more..that's where they complications come in. HF...i had one for years &had a boyfriends& he lived with his girlfriend...we were just that cool..( Brooke, u may remember my friend who introduced Adg?) that we don't hang as much( me with son, him still hanging) ..he's hooked up with this new chic( some stripper-type broad no one likes) any case..he did want more, i didn't, but we were able to still just have a ball..i went everywhere with him( other friends/groups along too) ..martha's vineyard, l.a., nyc, mexico, or we could just hang at some lounge on a wednesday night.... I mean we were tight but no sexual chemistry AT ALL....we both agreed we were each other surrogate boy/girl friends....& were ok with that status( when we though abt it---it never really came up, unless someone else mentioned it)---IT CAN HAPPEN, I think just not forever.

--Ray J is such a cutie to me...if I met him....well...i'll just say he's cute & leave it at that.
show is funny but that one girl with tatoos on face is CRAZY....for real!

--tough love...good..i like it b/c the guy is from philly( as soon as he started talking I recognized the accent:-)!!)

p.s. brooke, i think imma go to this thing with nicole in may

Rameer said...

Philly - if you met Ray j, you'd be attracted to him for all of 1 minute...once he spoke, I'd be shocked if you felt the same way. Homie is a CLOWN. It's great entertainment for a guy to watch how this guy comes off, but to a woman with standards...not so much.

When I was with him, the only women who wanted to be bothered by his antics were the celeb groupies...

Brooke - you can def watch the game with me in the den! But you're only allowed to wear the Mac5 jersey when we're alone and THAT'S!

phillygrl said...'ve met plenty of people like that YUCK! just be staight up MAAAAAN!..anyway, i think i was just rambling in that last post, too much work on brain & it's dreary..!, but wanted to say , that guy i was freinds with, he said the same abt his girlfriend, she didn't want to do anything...for instance, we'd go get our oil changed on a random Sat. morning & she'd be laying on couch watching Zena or something..she just want' interested, but we had a ball..we'd go to ihip while we waited for cars to be serviced & then hit the mall afterwards( oh yeah, this guy was metrosexual..he loved to shop--so that was nice too) --but his girlfreind couldnot have been anymore interested that in the man in the if he got comped some tix to se Mary J Blige in A.C. at some hotelshe definitely wanted to go, but the small everyday things she had no interest...hence, they broke up...i think they lived together for like over 15 years....he was a life of the party, she was a homebody

phillygrl said...

i meant "ihop" ---im gone.stay dry everyone!

Brooke said...

They lived together for 15 years with no common interests? That's wack...and crazy! I couldn't do it!

The Mac5 jersey is all I wear on football Sundays anyway, so we'd be in agreement Ram :) We'd get along just fine :)

Anonymous said...

This is a very interesting topic. I've spent just about 30 years of my life as a non-muslim and now 32 going on 33 as a Muslim, so my perspective has changed. If you talked to me about about the HML friend before I converted to Islam, you would find me in the category of most men, saying "Yeah I've had one, and it was cool, then it went away...and bladdity blah blah blah. Ain't nothing wrong with it, as long as two people agree on the terms".

At that time I met my now wife (about 3 years before we got married) I was transitioning out of my HML days. After I did the knowledge on women from a psychological, biological, and Islamic lens, I have to say that a women would be doing herself more damaged to continue a HML. A bigger question that touches on is what are the psychological and social impacts of open sexed society? I did a healthy amount of study on the sciences behind what happens to a community when this type of lifestyle is openly accepted and practiced. I don't have time to explain the impact, but the result is destructive. I think it's quite clear that with the relationships and marriages at an all time low, we need to consider what the long term impact is of our actions.

There is a book I recently read by Thomas Sowell called Applied Economics: Beyond Stage One Thinking. Although I completely disagree with TS often loony conservative political views, his economic knowledge is tight. So what does economics and HLF's have to do with each other? Absolutely nothing. But the title of his book is telling, especially the later part. Beyond Stage One Thinking. Discounting the long term psychological damage of our community and the lowered social cohesian/diginity of the community is stage one thinking. A so-called "FREE" sexually society is actually not free. It's actually quite the opposite.

We can continue to dismiss the long term impacts of our behavior, and have this discussion a year from now, 2 years, from now, 3 years, from now or 2,000 years from now. In the end it's stage one thinking. I'm not afraid or ashamed to say that my behavior in encouraging HMLF was a mistake. I did not have the mathematics and proper sciences to understand what I was truly doing to my community. So my perspective on HMLF is need's to be ended. It's a unhealthy lifestyle, especially for women. Straight up.

Brooke said...

Wow Ox, I'm curious to hear more about this research you did. I sense another guest blog creeping up :-) Let me know!

I have to say I agree. Most women aren't built for that type of relationship/arrangement. I think alot of women TRY to embrace it, simply so she won't be alone or because she feels it's better than nothing. But I'm not just talking about "friends with benefits" because as B stated, his girlfriend is his homie, his lover AND his friend...and they are in a monogamous relationship. I guess my question was more along the lines of how hard is it to find someone who embodies all three.

Friends with benefits, as in Friday's blog, is totally different. I think it's a set-up. It may be cool for a hot second, but more than likely someone gets hurt...and it's usually the woman.

Annamaria said...

I will SHANK THE CRAP out of Austin I mean TASE HIM in his left testicle if he went & was hanging out with his female friend to do all this stuff & all we ever did was hang out at home (PREGNANCY HORMONE ALERT..LOL)

but LUCKILY we have lots of common interests & hobbies. We've also adopted each others habits & stuff so that helps alot. And when I watch sports with his boys he's always sitting right there pretending to be watching but just eating the food. He does play sports though & I love going to watch him also..


Brooke said...

Yes...twice Annamaria...TWICE! LOL!

I can't say that I've dated anyone I couldn't roll with. The thing I hear most from guys is how "cool" I am. That used to bother me sometimes, cuz I was tired of being the "cute, cool" girl. I wanted to be sexy and gorgeous :) LOL! Now I realize that being cool or laid back was just my way of being sexy...and I'm fine with that. Friendship is important to me, because that's what's left when the romance fades and you start to see people for who they TRULY are. You can't just love the person, you have to LIKE them too.

Serena W. said...

Oooooh I'm glad I wasn't first this morning lol! Annamaria is on a tasing rampage! I have a few guys friends and we were never attracted to one another, they are truly my brothas and have been there for me through the thick and thin.

Looking back I never had a perfect homie, lover, friend. I thought I did but it went sour (ah well).

Brooke you are better than me...I would never watch that fool Ray J's show...but tell me what the parents think about the girls lmao!

Georgia Peach said...

Good topic B. Here's my thoughts on the issue - I agree with some of what was said here and the only part that I would say I think ends the HLF relationship is in the end I believe men don't ALWAYS want the Homie part in their woman. I think that's what their boys are for... But I def believe you have to be friends and lovers for your relationship to work.

I think there are even some instances where you and your man can hang together, but think about it from this perspective ladies do you REALLY want your man with you in EVERY situation? At the hair or nail salon? When you're just hanging with your girls? That's where the biggest separation happens for me, but like I said I def need the L&F part of the HLF relationship. BTW I agree wholeheartedly with what Pretty Ricky said about men and how they put women into the friends category.

I have watched most of the VH1 dating shows and agree that the Ray J show is COMICAL... I hate that I watch it, but it's good for a few laughs every now and then. I just caught the "Tough Love" show for the 2nd time today and I liked a little more than I had the first ep I saw...

Brooke said...

I blame it all on Ant...cuz if he would have given me a topic to write about, I wouldn't have been watching Ray J.

Okay...maybe I would have since I was watching Tough Love, but he didn't distract me long enough to change the channel :-) LOL!

I blame Ant for everything, just so y'all know :-)

So did these male friends fall into the friend zone by accident Serena?

Anonymous said...

Word Brooke. I'm always down to be a guest on your distinguished blog. Great idea. I will do the blog on science behind the impact of communities with high uncommitted rates and some of the psychological fall out. I'll work and that..

I think a another question is: On average, how long does a HLF relationship last? Only those exceptional individuals have been able to let something like that ride for years. If those two individuals really wanted to get serious and they are good match, then it would have ended up in marriage, unless the two were too young to be serious about marriage. opposed to the idea of marriage, eventually they realized they were incompatible or just not ready for that type of responsibility at the time.

I would like to know how many HLF's led to long lasting happy relationships, whether that be marriage or just two people who decided to spend the rest of their lives together but did not get married. (e.g Common law marriage)

Serena W. said...

Nope we were always friends :) I believe a woman can have male friends that she was never attracted too and vice versa.

Anthony Otero said...

I love how I get blamed and TASED!!!

I was too busy being distracted.

Someone needs to curb the angry Puerto Rican woman. Have some Flan!

Brooke said...

Thanks Ox, I'm sure it'll be very insightful and always.

Do you think most people marry their HLF's? Ox, did you?

Serena, do you think it's possible they were attracted to you at first and never told you?

Brooke said...

It's fun to blame you Ant. Didn't get enough sleep? I blame Ant (and that one truly IS your fault) Nothing to blog about? I blame Ant :-) Being distracted? I blame Ant. It's all your fault! :)

I think Annamaria has calmed down now :-)

Serena W. said...

No I think we all looked at each other as friends. There was one more recently but he was still about playing the field and I'm so passed that stage in my life so we are cool and chat here and there. But to my homeboys from back in the day...nah we saw each other as friends from the jump.

Anonymous said...

We'll we were HF's. We didn't become lover's until later. It was actually a unique situation with my wife. She was in Saudi Arabia and I was in the US. We kept an overseas e-relationship, while both of us cut off our domestic relationship ties for about 3 1/2 years.

I met my wife online in 2003 and met her in person for the first time on January 2007. Those 3 1/2 years were probably the most important years of our life because we got to know each other while not getting blinded by the physical lust/intimacy which usually undermines most relationships because you didn't get to know the person and now you are stringing it along because you are with some mandingo or mandinga type of cat.

I think most people would marry their HLFs, if they removed the L from the HLF. Most times we are very young when we are in HLF mode and we haven't truly though out who we want to be and what we want in life. The lover part adds an additional level of blinders and we are to naive and inexperience to know the difference between love and lust. (in my view from past experiences)

Brooke said...

Wow, Ox...yours is a truly unique experience. Most people don't take the time to get to know each other first. It's like let's get the sex out of the way first and THEN I'll see if I want to get to know you. All backwards.

The best and longest relationship I've ever had was with a guy that I talked to and emailed for a year before I met him. I was in love with him before I ever laid eyes on him - and it was a plus that that we wound up being physically attracted to each other as well.

That doesn't happen often, so we have to learn to exercise self control and get to know the person as much as possible before we go down that road. Not always easy, can't say I've always done it, but I agree with everything you said.

Serena W. said...

Wow Ox I commend you. Friendship should be the foundation and honesty needs to be in there as well. I was friends with my ex for years before we thought we were ready to get it going. Problem was he wasn't honest with himself about some real issues about himself and in turn couldn't be honest with me. I didn't realize it until I moved down to Dallas and was in his presence everyday.

So the friendship was jeopardized and of course our relationship came to an end.

We still don't speak but I can't be friends and build anything with someone who isn't honest from the jump.

In getting to know someone I truly believe that in order to gain trust and build something that will be sustainable and last you have to get to know one another and have an open and honest friendship that can eventually blossom into a beautiful relationship.

Anonymous said...

Let me tell ya'll. There are a lot of scumbag men out there. A bunch of hyper-sexualized horn-dogs that are looking for one thing. It's unfortunate but the term "It takes one rotten apple to spoil a bunch" comes to mind. Same goes for women. "It take one loose women to spoil it for the good women". Not to say this it's an excuse but those select loose women get used and passed around from different men, then that experience becomes the perceived male norm.
When I first met my wife, I knew I had a queen. Her mind reminded me of Queen Nzinga. The truth is, I had a lot of women buzzing around trying to get a taste and once I met my Sarah, it' was over for those women. I didn't break these pseudo-relationships off in the best manner, but I could not live a double life. In the past I have always been honest with women. If it was just a physical thing I would say, "Hey I'm not looking for a relationship and I just want sex". I'm not joking, this is exactly how I would say it. They agreed, but it was completely wrong and deceptive.
We men are a very crafty bunch. But women can be just as crafty and wish to God that they would never let a man touch their body until a man is prepared to commit to them forever. I know it sounds crazy in this current world of secular humanistic ideas, but a woman has to protect her temple (body). Her body is not to used and abused like a rag doll. It is sacred. More woman need to band together and set the tone higher. Men should set the tone higher too, but I think we would get a lot more mileage out of the women side than the man side. Like Rameer I was never tricked. I was never taken to the cleaners although the gold digggers were sniffin' at my wallet like a blog hound trying to squeeze a dime like Scrooge McDuck. At this point the world is just one big science experiment.

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