Hillary for President!
8 years ago
Tuesday, September 21, 2010
Happy Tuesday! Let's go!
Dear Brookey,
Let me know your take on this. I recently started seeing a guy who seems to be nice so far. He paid for the first date, and received comp tickets to a concert for our second date. I figured I would offer to pay for our third date to show him that I’m capable of showing him a good time too. He didn’t allow me to pay for the entire dinner, but said we could go "dutch." Since then, we’ve been going dutch on everything we do – down to the penny. I like to be wined and dined when in the courtship stage, and even though I know we’re in a recession, I think that’s important. He’s a great guy, we have a good time, but I get the sense that he’s a bit cheap. Am I being petty or should a man go out of his way to let you know he’s serious early on by pampering a lady a little bit?
Dating on the Dime
Dear "Dating on the Dime",
I think the word you're looking for is "superficial" not "petty." And I say that with L.O.V.E :-)
Every woman likes to be wined and dined during the courtship stage of a relationship. But being wined and dined is NOT the only indication that a man is serious about you. There are some men who have money to burn, and there are some men who are smart and/or frugal with their money. You used the word "cheap"…but is that really an accurate assessment of him?
If he took you to McDonald’s and told you you could only get two apple pies for a dollar while he got a Big Mac and a shake for himself – then maybe he’s a bit cheap. But going dutch may simply mean that he has a budget that he needs to stick to and he’s not going to blow the rent money on trying to impress you with fancy dinners and concert tickets. And if you can offer to pay for a date to show him a good time as well, then what is the big deal?
It seems to me you offered to pay for dinner to show him that you're self sufficient, but deep down inside, you want to be taken care of. You can't be mad at him for taking you up on your offer to pay - and he only allowed you to pay for yourself, not him. Some men would let you treat them EVERY SINGLE TIME, so be glad you're not dating THAT dude :-)
I may not be the right person to go to for advice on this subject, because I find frugality and financially responsible men to be sexy. While “cheap” may not get you moist, not being able to buy a house, having bad credit, and drowning in debt are sure fire ways to dry me up like the Sahara. I think men who are savers are smart, and a good quality to look for in a potential long term mate. Men who feel the need to floss by buying “toys” (flat screens, every gadget under the sun, clothes, jewelry, cars, etc.) are usually lacking in character and are insecure. I prefer creative men who can show me a good time while being down-to-earth and not overly concerned with superficial things. The size of his flat screen won’t make up for any other place he’s...uh...lacking. Usually, the bigger the car, the smaller his…..feet ;-)
At the end of the day, I prefer a man who is generous with his time, energy, love and affection – not just his wallet. While a man spending money on you is nice, it’s not what matters most in the grand scheme of things. It makes no sense for him to break the bank winning you over, only to be broke when you get married and have to climb out of the debt he’s created in order to get you. Even if he’s not treating you on a date, is he treating you WELL on the date? Treating someone doesn’t have to be expensive, and treating someone well is free.
-b
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50 comments:
First yea boi
Dear Dating on a dime,cut a brother some slack. He has showed you a good time. Let things unfold and see what happens.Sometimes you have to kiss a few frogs before you find a Prince.The man seems smart and savvy, you said he received comp tickets to a concert so he must have some good connections. You'll be amazed at what you can do in NYC on a dime.Check out Time Out magazine, comes out every Wednesday. You can even get one for free at the Affinia Manhattan Hotel, located at 31street and 7th ave. My boyfriend and I make a game out of it to see how much we could get done in a day.We are not cheap by any means, we just prefer to spend our money on necessities rather than luxuries. This way there is no pressure and when we want to splurge we do
My original response to the letter totally changed after reading Brookey's response. She hit the nail on the head and shut up every last thing I was going to say about how I rarely ever let women pay on a date. However, if you make a sincere offer then be prepared to be taken up on it. I agree that he's not cheap, unless the style of the restaurants increased once you started paying for yourself...LOL
You're not superficial either, but maybe you should suggest he pay next time, especially if he asks you out. Maybe his response will surprise you, either way.
Speaking of paying for meals. Brooke, hit me on The Fury line about lunch :-D
Once again - Brooke-Ra nails it completely.
@Brooke- YOU ROCK!!!!!!
Word there is nothing left to say. Brooke said everything PERFECTLY.. Another thought to add is although I am sure this woman is a very nice person WHY should he spend all his money & break the bank just gettin to know her? Maybe he's saving the wine & dine treatment for when you are actually in a committed relationship???
Also he may be trying to find out where your head is at. He could be a millionaire. BUT trying to make sure that your head is in it for him & not what he can give you.
I agree with you totally on this B. If you're going to offer, then you can't be mad when he takes you up on it. Most men don't want to appear cheap, so they make the dates less frequent if they have to pay, or they try to find inexpensive or free ways to entertain you. Give the brotha some credit...free concert tickets are nothing to sneeze at when you take into account how expensive they can be. He could have taken someone else, so be happy that this great guy chose to spend his time with you.
Not saying women shouldn't be treated and that I love taking women out and showing them a good time. But you should manage your expectations. Trying to "buy" a woman's affection is simp behavior - and all it'll do is empty your pockets while she's giving up the goods to the broke dude who comes over AFTER you take her to the expensive restaurant. Don't act like that doesn't happen.
I'm sure this guy feels that he's with someone who isn't just looking at him for a free meal. I'm sure if you mention that you don't have any money for a date, or suggest that you both do something that doesn't require ANY money, he'll get the hint that you might not be happy going dutch anymore. It sounds to me like you've been on alot of dates with this dude already - so you should know by now if he's a cheap guy or a great guy who genuinely likes spending time with you and is worth keeping. Money shouldn't be this much of an issue by now unless he has bill collectors calling his house.
She said that after the THIRD date she's been paying for herself ever since. I hardly think that is enough time to start going dutch.A woman offering to pay ONE time does not mean she should pay for herself ALL the time. He should appreciate the fact that she offered to pay and then return to the courtship routine. We are not in a relationship yet and until then I'll enjoy him paying for stuff. Every woman likes to be treated so yall can stop fronting like you don't. Oh and if he's not doing it now he's definitely NOT "saving" it for when they are in a relationship.
One of my best dates ever was years ago. The guy & I met up on a weekday after work. Went to eat dinner at a diner in the city ($20-$25)he paid.
Then we walked around the city and talked & laughed for hours. Then I treated us to dessert at a cafe still in the city ($10-15) and then he took me home. I never even thought of the money OR the quality of the places we went all I remember is how much fun it was & how good it was to actually just have a nice conversation.
I'm not gonna lie, I hate paying for dates and I love it when a man treats. But I don't want to end up with a man who isn't good with his money either. If the man can find great ways to treat without spending ALL of his money, then give him my number :-)
Jigga is right. And trust me - *I* LOVED being the dude that got called after some dude was simpin' on a chick all night just to get a kiss on the cheek. No, I wasn't broke - but I knew (and still know) THE GAME.
Once in college, it was so bad that as dude was leaving her dorm room after spending $$$ on dinner, movies AND a gift, I was giving him a pound while I was coming over for the night...yeah, I know - GRIMEY. Dude looked like someone had kicked his puppy - he already KNEW what was up, even though she wasn't going to admit it ("...this is my 'friend' Rameer..." - coming over at 1:00am??? Yeah right - lolz!!).
But like Hov said - don't ACT like it don't happen...
As for Sarah P - no offense, but I know cats that LOVE women who think they're entitled to having everything spent on them. Those are oft times the EASIEST to run game on - cuz they're already concerned about the wrong things, so all the players have to do - is play OFF of that...
So a woman can only treat when she's in a full fledged relationship? Not during the "courting" stage?
da f*ck outta here.
Men like to be "courted" and treated too. It seems you all want to be treated but offer nothing in return sometimes. What makes a woman automatically entitled to free dinner 3 times a week? Why don't women ask US out sometimes? We need to weed you all out just like you need to weed US out.
And Jigga ain't never lied about women giving up the goods to the broke ass chump who only comes by after 11 when the date is over while the simp empties his wallet to treat you to a nice restaurant.
If I ask you out, then I pay. But if you offer, I MAY take you up on it, especially if it's just the movies while I grab the bill for dinner. If I'm just getting to know you, then why should I go broke doing it? And if you expect us to pay every time, because that's what a man's "supposed" to do, then expect to give up the ass every time or cook for us...cuz that's what a woman's "supposed" to do! LOL!
"He should appreciate the fact that she offered to pay and then return to the courtship routine."
That's a lil selfish don't you think...
Then again I'd argue that it open the door to a dude being able to say appreciate the fact that I offered to be in a relationship with you..But now that I've hit that I think I'll pass... LMAO
Tell'em Cable Guy!!!! LOL
NO offense taken. No one said I'm entitled to it, but if you are taking me out/dating me then clearly YOU think I am.
And I'm not sure what kind of girls you come in contact with rameer but maybe they were EASY to run game on lol. However, they have nothing to do with me.
And cableguy don't misunderstand me. I'm saying that if a woman offers to pay on the third date that should NOT mean that he should jump for joy and make her pay for herself ALL the time. I am in no way saying that just because we are not in a relationship a man can not be treated.
If you are asking me out then you are taking ME out...not the other way around.
@ Anna Maria nope don't think it's selfish at all. Not sure where you were going with the last part of your comment but I'll try to address it. Like Rameer said...just because he's paying doesn't mean he's hitting anything lmao but maybe you think a man paying for dinner entitles him to some a$$ and thats why your comfortable with paying. IDK! We don't have to agree people but I can have an opinion lol.
I totally don't think money=ass BUT I do think especially in this economy that I shouldn't judge or diss a dude or think less of him BECAUSE he allowed me to pay OR let me pay for myself.
I don't think I'm ENTITLED to a man doing anything. I don't think Courtship=you breaking the bank to impress me.
Courting me means getting to know one another in whatever capacity... I mean I like going out to nice places but please point out in what book it says that the man HAS to come out his pocket each & everytime...
I'd prefer for a man to let me know the type of person he is & care about what I am interested in, etc etc rather than break the bank trying to impress me & being completely shallow.
but who said he was "breaking the bank" in the first place? I think that is a big assumption that people made based off of what??? Because the letter this woman wrote to Brookey definitely didn't say he must take me to FANCY restaurants and spend every dime he's ever earned on me. Taking someone on a date and paying for them doesn't = spend your rent money and get evicted. No one said he should do anything for her that he can't afford to do. She can still get to know him and he can still let her know what kind of man he is (while paying) and not break his bank lol. c'mon son!
And what if he can't afford to pay for her right now BUT he really likes her & wants to get to know her? THEN WHAT?
@Sarah,
Let's be real. If he could only afford to treat her to Mickey D's every time they went out, she'd bounce. But hey, at least he's treating right?
Yeah, ok.
I think it depends on how often a woman expects to go out too. If you're fine dating a dude once a week, twice a week, then fine. Maybe he can afford to treat you every time. But if you go to the movies and dinner every weekend, that shit adds up. Maybe I'm not ballin like all you tv people and entrepreneurs (sp?) on this blog, but dinner and a movies can easily be $100 depending on where you go - at least in NYC that is. And if you do that every weekend, that's money that could be saved or spent doing something else. Like Stephanie said, there are great things to do in NYC that are free, you just have to do the legwork. And if you come across free concert tickets, even better!
Either way, there is no rule that says a man has to treat every time in order to prove he digs you, or that it's his job. Even though I wouldn't like it, I think it's smart to go dutch while courting, then start treating each other once you get into the real relationship.
DOING THE RUNNING MAN TO STEF'S COMMENT..
AMEN SISTER
I googled courting...Nothing about the man paying each time... :)
Just saw Stef's comment - let the blog say AMEN...
@ Sarah P - I never ran game on women; I do recognize it and don't allow it to be run on me. But what I was referring to was dudes I know or have known who have run game on women - and TRUST, they weren't "easy". Truth be told, all you have to do is do a proper scouting report on ANY person, and you can use what you know about them against them - i.e. running "game" to some extent on them. It's like playing basketball against Latrell Sprewell - the unprepared player may get torched, but one who has done due diligence will know that he has no left hand. You use that against him to influence what you want to occur on the court...and effectively control his game.
Everyone on this blog has been gamed before - and can be gamed again. Though it may be more unlikely for some than others, trust - you *can be touched*. Lolz!
I personally treat any woman I'm cool with generously; but then again - any woman I'm cool with is generous with me. And I taught my little brother a long time ago about not spending his cash on random chicks just for the "right" to get to know them:
When we were young, he and some cousins and I went to the movies. After the movie, he complained about spending money on this girl and she spurned him after seeming interested...now he was broke and had to do extra chores to afford the movie we had just seen.
I told him "Do you love me?" Of course, he responded - as if I had asked him the stupidest question in the world. "Do you love Mario & Gina (our cousins)?" Again, he didn't understand why I was asking him such a dumb question.
"Okay...you LOVE them. Known them and me as far as you can remember. And when we go out, you don't spend money to enjoy our company or for the right to get to know us better. And you don't EXPECT to.
"Now...if you don't spend all your money on your LOVED ones, who you'd be more than willing to if necessary...why spend all your money on someone you don't EVEN KNOW?? Make these chicks PAY or do something affordable next time. Cuz these skeezas (this was the 80s) ain't worth you wasting your allowance on, bruh. You'll spend way too much money trying to find a good one - and you'll be playin' yourself EVERY TIME."
He never forgot that. And it rings true today. You're welcome to your opinion - and I respect it - but I think women who concentrate on being treated and spent on aren't worth the time or effort. If you're more concerned with what I can spend on you than me - well, let me introduce you to some players I know who will make you dribble TO THE LEFT.
Lmao...
I hate to agree with Stef, since she's a hater and all, but she's right. If we said, "babe, I dig you, but I can only treat so long as we stick to the dollar menu" then she'd be OUT!
and can I ask why women lay up with the broke dude, but make the good dude pay for dates. Not saying that paying for a woman automatically makes you a simp, but if she's giving it up to Pookie and 'em, then what gives with that?
@ Captain Cable - cuz she KNOWS that dude can lay PIPE! The new dude is 50/50 until she "decides" to give him some. But Pookie has one purpose, and one purpose only...
TO F**K THE SH*T OUTTA HER...LMFAO!!!
Women don't expect anything from Pookie but some d*ck. That's all he's good for. But the other guy may have "potential." LOL!!
Hey, not saying it's right, but women judge men by the same standards that men judge us. Just like you have men out there who think a woman is only good for one thing, women have men who are only good for one thing. If a chick is content with you coming over late and sexing you down and then you leave and she ain't ringing your phone trying to boo you, then she thinks you're broke, or not good enough for her, of you have no potential...just a d*ck thang! LOL!
again yall are going to two different extremes. Why does it have to be the dollar menu or breaking the bank? LMAO too funny!
You are making assumptions on her character saying that she would bounce if he took her to micky d's lmao. Whose to say she wouldn't be happy as long as he's taking her out period. And weren't you the one saying that you hate paying for dates Stef? lol
Usually the courtship is the start for what to expect in a relationship. So if you think some magical switch is going to flip on and he's going to do stuff he didnt do while you were dating in the first place, you are mistaken. Thats like the phrase "I love you...Now change".
And Rameer you treat women generously...then why should he be any different? She's treating him gererously by offering to pay. Again that doesn't mean that she should have to pay from here on out for herself and that is my main point.
What's Stef? Did you ask for me!! LOL
I find that if a woman insists on being treated all the time, then chances are she won't want to be treated to McDonald's every single time either. In my experience, the woman who shared in courting usually reaped the benefits, because the man would be more apt to take her nice places and do nice things for her because he'd feel she deserves it and isn't just in it to be "treated."
But that's just me.
@ Sarah - I didn't say I treat *women* generously.
I said I treat women I'M COOL WITH generously. These women have proven themselves to not be the type who are concerned about my pockets and being treated - they can pay for their own meals, entertainment and fun. And since there isn't the expectation there, we have no issue going dutch or one person paying for the other.
I act no differently with my guy friends - if we go out to the sports bar, maybe I'll buy the wings and drinks this time - no problem. Cuz I know you'd do the same for me, or have - and neither of us give it any thought.
Getting to know a new woman? That doesn't have a price tag on it to me. I never have been, nor will I ever BE one of those dudes salty as all hell that he took a girl out, spent $100+ on her just for her to eat, have a good time and determine "I'm not really feeling you that way". GTFOH!!
Nah - there's plenty of simps for those women to choose from. Like my uncle said this past weekend - if you don't know me, you won't know HOW much money I got - cuz I sure ain't gonna show you...
And my example stands. I LOVE my siblings - and THEY don't expect me to pay for them every time we go out and do something together.
And I LOVE them. I should pay for every time I hang with a chick I don't even know like that, let alone LOVE?
Balderdash.
@ Brooke-Ra - just read your comment.
You GET it. I taught my baby sis - a quality guy will naturally WANT to be generous with a woman he cares for or likes, and feels isn't concerned with who is paying what or how much - or how frequently they're treating.
By not emphasizing the archaic "man should pay most/all of the time" stereotype...a woman will usually benefit from the man *paying most of the time*. Just like you said - because he'd feel she deserves it and isn't just in it to be "treated."
@Sarah,
NO woman likes to pay for dates. Not just me. But I do it. Who wants to come out of their pocket? No one. But just because I'm being honest doesn't mean I know it's not right either. I'm sure men don't like paying for every date either, but some of them do it. It's just the way it is.
I don't EXPECT men to do it just because I don't like it. But maybe I don't like it because I don't make alot of money like that. And a man can be a great guy and not make alot of money, so I can't hold that against him. The guy I'm kickin it with now likes to treat me, but will quickly say that we can either only do the movies or dinner or not both because he has to pay his tuition or something. So if us going to a dinner AND a movie means I have to pay for one of them, then so be it. And he appreciates it. I'd rather spend time with him, not his money...so if we can't go out, we can spend a chill night inside and still have a great time enjoying each other's company.
People don't have enough open conversations about money anyway, much less once they get IN a relationship. If she's serious about keeping this guy around, then tell him your concerns. Everybody I know is on a budget, so be honest about that. If it's that big of a deal, then just do cheap stuff.
I do agree that if she's bringing it up, then it's a big deal to her I can tell you -as someone who has reached into my pocket a few TOO many times for my taste to pay for the ENTIRE date- you learn your lesson after awhile and realize the men of quality who really want to get to know you will ultimately do just that. And they'll pay for it too.
Who is this Stef and what has she done with my hater nemesis? LOL!
A dude knows when a woman isn't feeling him like that, but just wants to eat. And if he keeps treating her thinking she's gonna change her mind, then he's a simp.
And B is right. I tend to go overboard and pamper the chick who I know doesn't need me to pay for her all the time or who I feel isn't in it to get to know me, but to see how much she can get from me. Once a woman asked me "can I take you to dinner?" I accepted and I wound up insisting on paying even though she was fully prepared to do so...but it was just knowing that she was interested in ME and not me paying for her that won me over.
So what do you do if you meet a great guy who has to stick to a budget and can't afford to date you like you want to be dated? I agree with Yolanda, I tend to treat more than I'd like, but that's because I want to go out and don't feel like I should sit at home and do nothing because he can't afford it. I was seeing a great guy who lived paycheck to paycheck and was very careful with the money he had. It's just that he was a teacher and didn't make alot of money, had alot of student loans, etc. He was smart with his money, had good credit, but just didn't have any extra money to date. Do I not date him because he's broke, even though we have a great time? He'd do the dishes if I cooked. Fixed things around my place and showed me he cared in ways that didn't involve money. In that case, can you say he's "paying for it" even if it's not with money?
yeah well stef thats different. That is him explaining his situation to you and you choosing to continue in a fashion that works for both of you. According to the scenario, he stopped once she offered to pay for herself. That isn't him saying that he's paying tuition, student loans or rent. We don't even know how much time passes in between each date? Again she said she was only on # 3!That could be 3 within a 4 month span. All those assumptions were made giving him the benefit of the doubt and making the female in the scenario look like someone who just wants to be draped in gold by the man shes dating. Just because she wants to be taken out doesn't make her a gold digger or mean that she wants him to spend his very last dime. You act like she's counting his money but yall seem to be doing the same thing lol.
@Jaz,
Are you not dating this guy anymore?
I'd say that if he was showing you in other ways that he cared, then him not being to "afford" to date is a non-issue. If you choose to go out because YOU want to, and would like his company, so long as you don't feel taken advantage of, then I see nothing wrong with it. You're CHOOSING to do that, he's not asking you to. And if he's reciprocating in other ways that let you know that he appreciates you and is doing what he CAN do, then I think that goes a long way. Like I said, I prefer a man be generous with his time and affection than his wallet - especially if flashing his money is the only way he knows to express himself. Usually men who speak with their money really don't have anything interesting to say out their mouths.
A man shouldn't have to have a certain base salary in order to "afford" to date you unless you expect him to buy your affection. In that case, be careful what you wish for, because there are plenty of men who can buy their women anything they want, and the next woman...and the next woman...and the next woman....
@Sarah,
But why doe he owe her an explanation as to what he's doing with his money? My friend opted to tell me, but I didn't ask him why we can't go out. If they go dutch each time, she must be reaching in her wallet. She didn't say that he ASKED her to pay her part. Maybe so long as she keeps offering or reaching in her bag, he keeps assuming she wants to pay. Maybe she should just wait and see what he's gonna do before going in her wallet.
I know a guy who assumes that if a woman reaches in her wallet, that she doesn't want him to pay for her until they are better acquainted. Some women don't want you to expect anything from them, so they pay so that you can't ask for any ass at the end of the night. I know MOST women don't do this, Lord knows I don't, but some do. There is nothing wrong with wanting to pay your own way.
The woman in the blog said she likes to be wined and dined. But that doesn't mean she deserves it. And she even said "even though we're in a recession, it's important." Well, if she's insisting on being "wined and dined" in a recession, then I think that's a bit selfish. Even I can appreciate a brother on a budget in a recession, and I don't like paying for dates. Just being real!
@Brooke,
We don't date as much because I got tired of paying for everything. He still calls and wants to spend time with me, but I guess I let the money thing get to me. That and my girlfriends. They used to get on me for paying for everything and said he was using me, even though he did other things for me. After a while, I guess I started looking at it from their point of view instead of thinking for myself. I feel foolish now and I think he feels bad about not being able to treat me that much, so now I'm trying to figure out what to do.
@Jaz,
Get these women out of your ear. Are they single? Do they have men that treat them every time they go out? And why are you telling them all your business?
I have great girlfriends who I share alot with...but not EVERYthing. They don't need to know what you spend on a date, or that you spend on a date period. And if you're telling them that this man does other things to show that he cares for you and they're STILL telling you to kick him to the curb based on that fact that he is actually smart with his money but just doesn't have alot of it, then you need more understanding girlfriends.
Sounds like they're just hating if you ask me, but you know them better than I do. You're not dating THEM, you're dating HIM - and you know in your heart if he's using you or not. If you feel in your heart that he genuinely cares for you, ignore these chicks and give him a call. So many times women care more what their girlfriends think rather than following and using the good sense God gave them. I say that with L.O.V.E :-) but it sounds to me like you already know what it is.
@ Jaz - obviously we don't know each other PERSONALLY, but if I may offer some advice...
If something you're doing in your life brings you joy or happiness, don't allow outside interests to pollute or corrupt it. Your friends may *mean* well, but you're in the situation - if there has been nothing harmful or negative about it, tell them to shush and continue a good thing.
A good man is hard enough to find without a woman's friends causing her to eliminate one from the equation.
yeah...what Rameer said :-)
They're probably jealous of you Jaz and want you to be lonely spinsters like them! LOL!
Sounds like a good dude to me. If the money thing bothers you, then spend time with him and do free, fun things. You don't have to spend money to get out of the house and have a good time.
And like B said, keep your business to yourself. I know it's hard when you're feeling someone to not want to share details with your friends, but not everything needs to be said to them. Just tell them that you're having a good time and that's it. It's no one's business if you pay for dates or not. I bet your girls are paying for alot too - either with ass or their own money - and just not telling YOU! LMAO!
=)
Have a good night, everyone.
Hm. I don't agree with most of what's being said here. I'm new to the blog (Hi Brooke! And I really like your blog:)) I've agreed with most of what I've seen so far but I felt that this one was too harsh and too many judgments were made by Brooke and the commenters. I think the question is whether a woman should expect a man to pay for most dates at the beginning of the courtship. Please note I said "beginning of the courtship." And obviously, not every woman does or should expect this. But obviously, Dating On A Dime does expect this. And there's nothing in DOAD's note to indicate that she's using the guy or that she's not invested in the courtship. IMO, that nullifies half the comments made. I think it's a legitimate question and not deserving of most of the harsh comments made here. DOAD wants to be courted and treated. She wants to feel special. Subtract all the negative assumptions made and tell me what's wrong with that? Maybe the dude is really cheap/frugal and maybe she doesn't want to be with someone like that. Just bc Brooke like's frugal men doesn't mean every other woman does too. And for those of you who say that money should not be used to measure effort....please! Money rules our society...we think about it all the time, why would it be different in a courtship scenario? I'm ready for the punches now... :)
@Naria,
If DOAD wants a man to wine and dine her and pamper her, then she's with the wrong man. Period.
But she asked if she's being petty, and the blog answered. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - and I welcome them all...which is why I post the Dear Brookey letters for others to weigh in on. I gave my responsed based on the question she asked and the information she gave.
She said he's a great guy and they have a great time. She thinks he's cheap because he allows her to go dutch. If you believe that a man should pay for all dates in the initial stage of dating, then she's already gone on one date too many and is wasting her time. But clearly she's wondering if she'd be missing out on a good guy by placing so much importance on money and who pays rather than on getting to know him - otherwise she wouldn't be writing to ask for advice from the blog family.
There is a difference between cheap and frugal. One is selfish, the other is smart. If you don't like men who are careful with money, then move on.
And for money measuring effort, I think it's foolish to think that money is the sole indicator of it a man is serious about you. I've known men who have plenty of money to spend on women simply to bed them...and then bounce. And they'll hang in there wining and dining you until they get in there. And they also have plenty of money to wine and dine several women at once. Having alot of money to spend on dating doesn't mean you're serious with the woman or women you're courting...it simply means you have alot of disposable income to enjoy the company of a woman or several women until it's time to move on. I've received gifts and been treated very well from me who had absolutely no intention on anything long term. They were fun to date, but if I wanted more, they weren't the one for me.
At the end of the day, if being wined and dined is that important to her, then she should leave this guy to be with a woman who doesn't mind his frugality and find that nice, great guy who she has a great time with who also makes alot of money, is generous with it and isn't affected by the recession. No one one the blog said that wanting to be treated well is wrong or that we all wouldn't enjoy that (myself included) - but her question was if a man should go out of his way to pamper her...and the answer could just as easily be "why should he?" Some are assuming she's deserving of this treatment simply because she's a lady...and that would be a bad assumption to make.
Thanks for checking out the blog and commenting!
@Naria,
Being treated well and feeling special has nothing to do with money, it has to do with the guy. If the only way she can feel treated and special is if a man pays for her dinner, then she's insecure and lost.
No one knows this woman personally, but judging by her statement of if a man "should go out of his way" to pamper a woman, maybe he doesn't feel that she deserves this treatment yet. Clearly she feels HE'S worthy, otherwise she wouldn't keep dating him knowing she may have to pay her way, unless she's just dating him to see if he WILL pay. Something is keeping her there, and if she's asking the question, then I think she already knows the answer.
I didn't think the blog comments were harsh at all - just honest. Nothing is wrong with wanting to be pampered, but make sure you're willing to do the same in return. A lot of times, women expect to be treated like a lady without behaving like on, or expect to be treated just because they're a woman. Maybe he can sense in her that she may be bit of a diva (not saying she is, but since we don't know her, we can speculate all we want) and maybe he feels that she's not worth the treatment. If she is, then he'll show his appreciation of her in other ways, not just by pulling out his wallet.
Brooke, I loved your response - great advice.
@ Brooke and Ms. Penn
Good points by both of you! Difference btwn cheap and frugal duly noted and agreed to. She says he is cheap - who knows how accurate that is. Not to belabor this discussion but I think it's an interesting one.
My view is that DOAD has a more traditional expectation when it comes to dating, which is why I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Our personal expectations (esp. when it comes to dating/love) don't always align so easily with societal changes in gender roles and economic downturns. It's generally hard for people to let go of what they are conditioned to believe is a normal courtship/standard procedure. Use of the word "courtship" in her comment being key here. And I don't think this makes her "superficial," "insecure," or "lost" necessarily. Maybe a little outdated. In any case, I think DOAD needs to dig deep, reevaluate what's really important to HER and not abide by what she thinks he "should" be doing to win her over and adjust her expectations accordingly. If he's truly cheap (selfish), then that's a turnoff and she should bounce.
Of course, money is not the sole measure of someone's level of interest/effort. I didn't mean to insinuate that.
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