Hillary for President!
8 years ago
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
Happy Tuesday!
Put your hands together for Ant "Latinegro" Otero!
"What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way. " - Harry Burns
Best part about When Harry Met Sally is the whole debate about if men and women can just be friends. I struggle with this topic because I can give a different answer depending on the day of week. But I will preface all of this by saying that I believe that depending on the situation, men and women can be friends.
First, let me just say that I am very glad to be guest blogging again. I know that I have been MIA for a while, but if you've been reading my blog you will kinda know that I have a lot on my mind. Thank you Brooke for having me here. So...
I will be real with you all - I have many female friends. If you go on my Facebook page, you will see those are the people who respond to me the most (besides Rameer, who called me gay...but I got you son). Women are the ones who I tend to talk to the most about...well...other women. So, I wont lie - I can tell you all right now that out of all the women I know, I would sleep with 98% of them if I had the chance.
This should not be alarming. The 2% that I wouldn't sleep with are in that 2% because I view them like sisters. They are normally the ones I have either known for a long time - or more importantly - female students that I have mentored. Of course, the problem is being a guy. We look at all women who are not family as potentials. Nothing is wrong with that to me, but that is what we do.
I laugh because I was talking to my dad a few days ago and he told me that he noticed that I have a lot of females talking to me. So I just shrug it off because I have always been more comfortable with women than I have with guys. Maybe it's because most of my family are women, so I know what they go through with men in general. Of course I try not to make those same mistakes, but I find that I have to learn the hard way. So, my dad tells me, "I am sure one of those ladies wants to give you some." This is why you have to love my father.
The issue is not whether or not women want to sleep with a guy, the issue is: will it happen? Let's take my lovely friendship with Brooke for example. Her and I have become fast friends over the past year. We have called each other, discussed ideas and problems. But, I have told her that I had such a crush on her in college (and really...who didn't?). Of course she is in that 98% I am talking about - but will it really happen?
The one thing I have learned for sure is that sex changes everything. Good friends can become f*ck friends really quickly, and then from there anything can happen. A relationship could start or a friendship could end. So the the real question becomes: Is having sex with a good friend worth the risk? Keep in mind that if you are friends, you will know each other's bad habits and lies. So all that stuff that worked with the ex you could not get over, will not work with this person. Plus, let us not talk about what happens if someone catches feelings while the other person doesn't...
What about if you've had sex with your friend and then moved past it and remained friends, and then one or both get into a serious relationship with another person? Will there be a level of secrecy there? Would you tell your partner that you slept with your best friend? Sure, it meant something at the time..and now you've supposedly moved past it - now what? Right there is the key. What if the partner does not want to trust your best friend? I mean let's face it - men and women can be pretty bad if the sex was off the hook.
However, in most cases that I have seen, a true friendship can get past that. True friends just care about each other and the other person's well being. So, it is possible to be friends through thick and thin?
So, I am going to need some help here...can we be friends or what? I think we can, but of course if you in the 98%...it might difficult...lol
-Ant aka "Latinegro"
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27 comments:
First bitches
First Bitches!
It's a TIE! LOL!!
No, If there was a second hand on the clock, I think it would show that Annamaria was a few seconds faster than I was but I tried!
To answer Ant's question - of course men and women can be friends. The problem I think most people face in defining this is what initiated the friendship.
Most men I know who have platonic friendships with women admit that the friendship, on THEIR end, was due to some physical attraction first. Whether or not they actually had sex with the woman or not didn't necessarily mean anything - the attraction was what made them get to know the person.
I guess the question could also be can you develop a friendship with someone devoid of lust INITIALLY? I think we can all agree that men and women can be just friends - but does the friendship come by default?
Yes Tony, you tried...you're getting closer! LOL!
YES I was faster but Tony you gave were close. Nice try buddy...LOL
Anywho...I agree with Brooke men & women can be friends just friends & nothing more..
HOWEVER I'd like to add something to the mix. I think it is very important the other way around. Meaning if you are in a relationship that person should be your friend. You should share common interests & be able to be goofy & silly & youself & just hang out... Some people get soo caught up in other stuff they forget that.
This time.........If I hadn't taken the time to add the exclaimation point I would have won!
Ok, here it is plain and not so simple. Men and Women can be friends BUT one or the other will always feel more than friendship amd sex will always be present, lurking in every conversation and around every corner. The real question is if/when they give in to it and what happens to their relationship.
I disagree...Always is a strong statement & that will not always be the case. There are many cases where friends are just friends & feel nothing more than friendship towards each other...
Yo Ant...
"You know how I know YOU'RE gay??" LMBAO!!!
Anyways...Ant and I are EXTREMELY alike in this regard. Family of females, mostly female friends, get along better with them, 98% - the whole thing I'm on the same page with him. However, I USED to believe it was impossible to truly be friends. Really. I couldn't fathom it, and was even able to prove it to doubters (if they were willing to test the theory and potentially end a friendship).
But something changed. My best friend (we'll call her Applebum or AB for short) and I are great friends. In fact, she's the only woman who can hang with me and my boys (my crew all lives out of town, so we have mini-reunions from time to time) and just be one of us. Oh, we all notice her - she's GORGEOUS - but no one bothers her, tests her, etc. We're truly friends.
We DID date in the past. And we have a VERY close relationship that has made some females I've dated VERY uncomfortable. But we're completely open about our history and closeness, and both of us always let people we're dating know how it is between us - and that neither one of us will ever give up our closeness. We truly have unconditional love as friend for each other, and complete honesty.
This relationship opened me up to be friends slowly buy surely with other women. For the first time in my life, I can say I'm close friends with women just on their own merits. Before, there were only two ways a woman and I could become friends - (1) I had slept with her and we decided to stop and remain friends at some point, or (2) she used to have a serious relationship with one of my crew, and we grew close during that relationship (my crew and I have a STRICT "no double-dipping" policy. Even if the relationship *wasn't* that deep). But now - I can meet a woman and actually become her friend.
Oh, don't get it twisted. Like ain't said, 98% would get THE BUSINESS if the opps presents itself. But I'm not trying to make that happen or stressing it, or keeping it in the back of my mind as trying to make/hope it happens like I see these older, average men do (I think that's so corny). Ant and I DO differ in this way - I don't see any woman who ain't related to me like a little sister. No...I love my sis, and I have NEVER looked at her the way I look at my female friends. There's one woman I can say I did. Just ONE.
Good blog, Ant.
It's funny, Mo and I were having this conversation last week. The question was if you slept with someone, and then later remained great friends, yet your new man/woman was uncomfortable with the fact that you slept with someone who is now a close friend - do you take their feelings into consideration?
Most people would be uncomfortable with the fact that their man/woman was extremely close with someone they slept with. By extremely close, I don't mean just hangs out with, but shares secrets, insecurities, or even information about your relationship with them. Is that off limits?
For me, I guess I would need more information about the nature of their relationship - but in the end, a person is going to do what a person is going to do - whether I know about it or not. I'd rather get to know my man's friend and have her close than have him sneaking a relationship with her behind my back.
I'm friends with all of my exes, but not to the point where I'd call any of them a BEST friend. I have nothing but great things to say about them, and they've all moved on, as have I...and we can talk about it...but I can't say that any of them are close enough where they'd be considered a threat to a current relationship or I'd backslide if given the chance.
She's never been a threat to any of my subsequent relationships, nor me to hers. We stopped seriously dating before the towers fell. But yes, we are INDEED best friends. And ridiculously comfortable around each other...
I honestly wouldn't know what to do without her. We're *that close*. My family loves her, too...and her family loves me. It just goes without saying amongst our families that we're tight...no murmurs of "are they or aren't they"...
You should definitely take your relationship into consideration when it comes to friends. And address things if one of your friends makes your mate uncomfortable. Although they may not be a threat to your relationship you should always want your mate to be comfortable.
okay Rameer, but do you think you would have become the friends you did if you hadn't dated first? Seriously or otherwise, there was once enough of an attraction where you dated this person.
I think some men and women question if two people can be extremely close friends without the attraction ever having been an issue. Most would say it's rare that two people of the opposite sex who are heterosexual somehow found each other on a platonic level and became great friends where the initial reason for coming together wasn't based on some sort of attraction or lust or whatever.
And I agree Annamaria, if you know that you have a relationship that might not make sense initially to a new boo, then you should be as open and honest about it as possible - IF you slept with that person or had a previous relationship. I think I'd want the same consideration. Not saying you have to end it, but the person you're dating should have access to whatever information needed to feel at ease if the person you're sharing intimate details with just happens to be someone you've slept with or had a relationship with in the past.
We wouldn't have been friends, I can tell you directly. However, after we got involved, we realized we had a much stronger, special connection than either one of us ever imagined we could have with someone. We were honestly FRIENDS, and when we stopped the relationship, it was cool...we were in love with our FRIENDSHIP...and remain as such. It's one of the deepest, most meaningful relationships I've ever had...stronger than some family ties.
and I don't know if this was meant specifically for me, but I'm upfront with every person I've ever had a relationship with. Every woman knows about Applebum from the jump, and our relationship. If you can deal with me being close to a girl I dated years ago, cool. If not, move on. No problem. Cuz I'm not giving up that friendship. It goes A LOT deeper than just confiding and talking to each other about things. As do my relationships with my boys. It's damn-near like the mafia.
If you can trust me to be the honest person everyone knows I am as a woman, you're good. she doesn't even live in the same city as me, and it's not like we go away on secret romantic vacations together. I see her in the same context that I see my crew - when we're in town, we chill and have fun and do things. But we talk all the time. And we express the love that true friends express. That's it.
Ant's blog is about can men and women be friends. I say yes based on THIS relationship opening up my eyes to this being possible. If you doubt it or disbelieve it, maybe you disagree that men and women can be valid friends. Cuz we don't "backslide" or any of that. But our level of comfort with each other tends to make insecure and/or distrustful people take pause.
The ones who just take a look at it for what it is never have a problem. On either of our ends. They already know the deal by the time we introduce them to one of us...that's my best friend, and I love him/her *dearly*.
I am so sorry for not commenting earlier...it has been one of those days. Thank you for reading today.
I want to say that maturity has everthing to do with weather a friendship last as well. But hey, we are all adults here..
..and being adults usally mean adult conversations...lol
You know how I know you're gay?
Cuz you took so long to comment on your own blog...
Lolz!
Everyone was crushin on B back in school huh? I can see that...and why wouldn't they? She's a great person, inside and out.
And I think that's kinda the point. If you find a gem of a person, and you have a true friendship, then I think...to answer one of Ant's questions... that sometimes it's not worth messing that up. Of course the ideal situation would be to have your best friend be your lover (Brooke, I'm willing to take that risk mama;)) but if you honestly feel that the friendship would be compromised because a relationship would add stress, or you feel you can't be faithful and would hurt the other person, or whatever...then don't risk it.
I have to be honest tho, all the friendships I have with women have been by default...and I don't consider any of them to be a BEST friend. I'm saving that slot for the woman who would eventually be my wife...so B, you don't have to worry about some other chick threatening our relationship ;)
Uh-oh...
***waits for Anthony to come in and light Cable Dude UP for shamelessly pandering to Brooke-Ra***
Not pandering...B knows what it is. I'm just willing to say what most dudes won't :) She ain't taken, so I'm puttin it out there. Ant can't light me up for that :)
Since it is my day to guest blog i wont light anyone up. The point is I love my female friends because they wont lie to me. I am ont saying guys will, but there is alot of macho shit that I do not need sometimes.
Brooke will tell me how it is and I dont have to worry about it. Now, we all know she can get...lol
This aint really on being able to take a risk with Brooke but more of being real with her...
I think that men and women can be real friends if they have never had sex. The whole friendship after sex is totally lost on me. If you are confiding in your female "friend" more than you are confiding in the woman you supposedly love, then you are in a relationship with the wrong person. Sorry...I just can't ride with it.
I hear you Mo, I think alot of people feel that way. It's one thing to have female friends - it's another to be emotionally closer to them than the woman you're in a relationship with. I think sometimes the "emotional connection" can be alot deeper than the physical one...and I think women are more threatened by that since we're emotional beings. We want the man to be our best friend as well as our lover, whereas men may be able to disconnect the two. Who knows...
Ant -
First of all, excellent topic. There were some great points made, and I agree with many of the aspects presented in the comments afterwards.
Personally, I have to agree with my archrival/nemesis/Thelma-to-my-JJ.
Momo hit this one on the head: After sex, all bets are off. Once that's in the equation, it screws up the emotional process. We just can't turn that thing off/on to be objective and just "hang out" without thinking about it.
For either party, the guy or the girl. Here's what I mean:
If the dude just wants to be friends after sex, and the girl wants more than that, she will consider that rejection. Her inherent ideas of insecurity, what she didnt provide and "being used" in the process will cloud her friendly judgment. Now, some kind of "friendship" (used loosely) may come with the bitter feeling of being rejected, but not the kind that's "best" or anything of the sort.
Meanwhile, if the girl just wants to be friends after sex, and the guy wants more than that, he will consider that rejection a kick in the teeth. His inherent insecurities about the nature of the relationship going forward and what he "didn't put down" in those earlier stages leading to the sex will dog him. Cuz, if it was dating leading to that intimacy, and he gets no love afterwards, he realizes (if I may quote the great James Ingram) "I gave my best, but I guess my best wasn't good enough..."
Essentially, it comes down to a thought of:
"She's supposed to not be able to get enough of me after the phase that leads to that level of intimacy."
That's not about ego, its just nature. Any man who doesn't admit that we think that way somewhere down deep just needs to think about it. We thrive on our own ability to be insatiable, and if we're not - we gotta be friends? Nah, I'm good.
These thoughts cloud his brain and limit his ability to effectively administer any "friendship" thats fun to be around for the young lady.
Excellent topic.
Dmoe
Maaaannn...
Y'all believe what y'all want. Lmao! Not to say you're speaking specifically about me, but in MY situation...who says I *have* to be emotionally closer to Applebum than my mate? But, speaking realistically - ANY WOMAN that gets involved with me has to build that connection up with me! Guess what? It ain't just HER! I got a whole list of people I've known for years that I'm going to be emotionally closer to than a woman in a new relationship. that's just REALITY. Oh, and they're males and females.
I'm coming home to *you*, right? I'm with *you*, correct? I think this speaks more on the individual than me. Cuz I've been in plenty of relationships, and once I'm in them, it's never an issue. I don't lie, I'm brutally honest, and I'm not a cheater. It's the entire point of Ant's blog...we're FRIENDS.
Ant mentioned the word maturity. In MY case, that's what it's about. I'm mature enough to be best friends with a woman I once dated. But hey - get this - I'm cool with MOST of the women I've dated! Very few messy break-ups over here! We all maturely walk away from that aspect and keep the friendship aspect of it going. But I guess since I won't even enter into a relationship with a woman without establishing a friendship first...it's easy for me.
Cuz I never want to lose a worthwhile friendship. And I must just pick women who can separate that when it's over, it's over...and we can move on and function just fine.
That's my experience and my reality. I have a female friend who we dated when we were in high school...I'm the only guy from her past her husband feels comfortable talking to her. Cuz he met me, and knows we're really just friends. No ulterior motives, everything on the up and up.
If having a female best friend sounds so fishy, cool. Guess it's good you're not dating a guy like me. She and I are as close as my crew...and if I had a serious girlfriend who couldn't see what everyone else can blatantly see and let insecurities and her own thoughts trump the reality of our friendship...then she simply wouldn't be my girlfriend.
Hell - my MOTHER has a male best friend I've known my whole life. No hanky-panky (they never dated), and my Dad and his wife have no issue with it...our families *hang* together.
Always have.
Rameer, I don't think the people commenting are directing their comments at you :) We get it, you're best friend is a girl. We get it! :)
Like I said, I'm "friends" with all my exes...MEANING we can talk on the phone, we can hang out once in a blue moon. BUT...most of them are married now and have families and/or girlfriends. I don't call them after a certain time. I don't discuss any personal issues they may be going through. They don't share things with me that they haven't told their wives first, IF they tell me at all. I think they value their relationships to the point where they know better than to cross any lines or even open that window. I think they respect boundaries, establish boundaries, and no matter what we had, they know the "friendship" is different now between us.
There are men I've dated that I realized after a few dates that we're better off as friends...and there was no sex, so it never clouded my judgment or ability to be friends...because we never crossed that line. I'm sure there are some that can go back to being great friends even after sex has been - but I believe that initial attraction that led you to the bedroom is always underlying.
I know FULL WELL what exes I can be around and which ones I shouldn't. That's not immaturity or lack of control. Maturity is also about knowing yourself, knowing that you're human, and knowing that putting myself in a human situation might allow something to happen that probably shouldn't. Even if I know better than to act on it, the desire will be there. That to me is more the question of the blog.
The answer to can men and women just be friends has an easy answer. The real question is how did you get to that point? There are a million circumstances that could lead to that easy answer. Not all paths to that friendship are the same.
"Hell - my MOTHER has a male best friend I've known my whole life. No hanky-panky (they never dated), and my Dad and his wife have no issue with it...our families *hang* together."
CASE IN POINT -- they never dated! lol
I think it may be easier for a woman to accept that you have a female bestfriend if you haven't banged her. However, once that line is crossed then it becomes questionable. Essentially you have the intimacy/friendship you need in a woman from the female friend you have in your life without the sex. To me that provides men with a certain comfort zone...because now you don't need to worry about "trusting these hoes". You have a woman you can trust in your life without the "drama" of being her man. Instead of working on gaining trust and intimacy with the women they date, men use those women for shits and giggles / sex and revert back to their "female friendships" for the honest talks when you need an ear to listen and convos about the good old days. What woman would be comfortable knowing that the man she loves is confiding in another woman, things he can't seem to talk to her about?
Thanks for agreeing with me Satan...I mean Dmoe
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