Monday, April 20, 2009

Something New

Happy Monday!

I hope you all had a great weekend and took advantage of the 70+ degree weather we had on Saturday here in the northeast - beautiful weekend!

So this morning, I'm IMing with a friend of mine. He tells me that his daughter, who is black, got accepted to a college in Iowa. He wanted her to go to an HBCU, but she refuses. His response to hearing the news?

"She's definitely bringing home a white boy."

I asked him if he would have a problem with that, and he said, "as long as he treats her right, I have no problem with it."

Good Daddy :-)

And based on many statistics, there is a definite possibility that she may actually bring home a white boy. Take a look at this report.



Imagine my surprise when watching this clip I noticed a co-worker who is featured in the story. I'm going to have to go over to her later today and ask her about her experiences dating outside of her race.

I've never dated a white guy personally. Having gone to majority white schools all my life, I've had a few approach me in middle school and high school, but rarely in my adult dating life. They may seek me out online, but that's about it. They never approach me in person and definitely not at work. That used to make me wonder if they were afraid to approach black women, or if they only view black women as a fantasy to be pursued behind closed doors and through computer screens. They are DEFINITELY not approaching me.

I have two very good friends who have dated and married white men, and they say they never sought out a white guy - it just happened. That's who they fell in love with. And to them, a man is a man. Period. One met her husband at work, both lawyers.

My sister is married to a Moroccan man, and although he's not white, he's not really considered black by most people either. I know plenty of black women who will date Latino men as well - but they're considered men of color...so that doesn't really count as dating outside your race right? Many will debate that; and I know a few black women who have told me that their Puerto Rican boyfriend's parents were APPALLED when he brought home a black woman - even though they themselves could be mistaken as black.

Although we see many more black women exploring different races as dating preferences, for the most part we are overwhelmingly loyal to our race. We will usually exhaust all options before deciding to date a man who is not black by society's standards. Some studies attribute this to factors that date all the way back to slavery. We just tend to stick by our men. And the white guy we seek has to look like George Clooney, Brad Pitt and Clive Owen all rolled up into one. This clips sums it up, fast forward to about 3 minutes in:



Funny as hell! but there is some truth to it :-)

But studies say that if we want to get married, then this loyalty may lead to our downfall. And it's not as simple as there aren't enough black men to go around (even though when you factor in DL/gay, incarcerated, under-educated and unemployed men, it seems kinda bleak) - the real reason they say we're not getting married is because no one is asking. Studies seem to suggest that black men suffer from the "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" syndrome when it comes to marriage. Do you think this is true? I'm curious to hear how many black men out there are actually INTERESTED in getting married.

Now, I'm not telling black women to run out there and find a man of a different race if that isn't her thing. The LAST thing I want to suggest is that there are no good available black men out there. If a Black woman wants to have a lasting, substantive, romantic relationship with a black man, she has to allow him to be an individual and not representative of a group of stereotypes. When citing reasons for our difficulties with the opposite sex, we shouldn't offer statistics straight out of the media's gloomy playbook. At the end of the day, the last thing any man, Black or White, wants to be treated as is a statistic. Each man is different, but a man nonetheless. Just keep your eyes and hearts open...and simply love who you love.

-b

69 comments:

Keefe said...

Ahem ………. It is with great pleasure to announce: I’M FIRST BITCHES!!!!!

Brooke said...

LMAO!! You've been MIA for WEEKS now, and then you come in here talkin' bout "first bitches"? LOL!

Keefe said...

Wow .... I didn't realize our brief conversation would evolve to a blog. :-)

Thanks for the "good daddy" comment. I'll provide a serious response after my meeting.

Brooke said...

You're welcome Keefe :) I wasn't sure if you'd want me to let everyone know it was our conversatin that inspired my blog for today - but since you put it out there... :-) Thanks, I wasn't sure what I was going to blog about today! whew!

Yolanda said...

At this point...considering how gloomy things are on the dating scene, I'd consider the white man (although they NEVER approach me).
But he needs to be McSteamy-RobinThicke-GeorgeCloooney fine!

Brooke said...

Most black women I know say the same thing - he needs to look like George Clooney, Brad Pitt, McSteamy, Clive Owen all rolled up into one. Is it because we just don't find them that attractive that we don't seek them out?

I may have to go back and add that clip from Chris Rock where he says the reason why black women get so upset when we see black men with white women is because we're not attracted to white men. That was hilarious! but may have some truth to it.

Yolanda said...

I'd agree Brooke... he has to have a little Black-swag :-) or some mystery, something. He cannot be Poindexter.

Anonymous said...

In my situation, it was not about race. We both realized that we had much in common and we totally enjoy being around each other. It should never be about the "race"(or any other group for that matter), it should be about the person. I ain't no Clooney or McSteamy, lol, but why does it have to be about looks?
See you on August 8th!!

Latinegro said...

There are so many things for me to say about this subject,I just do not know where to begin.

I do not have a problem with interracial dating. I think that love can truly be color blind. But, my question is why stop at white men? What about asian men?

I think that society has brain washed us to think with this box of race. Now, i understand that culturally you might want to find the right fit, but that might be a small detail when really want to just fine someone who is right for you.

I have stated before, Latinos are some of the most racist people on this planet. I had a latina student tell me she is not interested in black men. I was like ok...but you do know that Puerto Rican come in a black shade too. She was like nope I like them light. She showed me a pic of her "boo". I really was not impressed. Did I mention she was single?

I just think you gotta do you. If that person happens to be outside you race...then so be it.

Rameer said...

As pro-Black and militant as people call me, I used to have a huge problem with this. Going to Syracuse changed my perspective.

I knew an athlete that was doing his thang with the white girls. We were cool, but one day, I took him to task on it.He replied that when he came to school, he couldn't get no rhythm from the sistas...the white girls were the only ones who would give him the time of day. Now that he had a little name, sisters were mad at him...and he said "what was I supposed to do - sit at home dateless, alone, until my game performance raised my stock??"

That's the same experience Dennis Rodman had. I realized I wouldn't be willing to not have love simply because I couldn't find someone within my own race. I would explore people who liked me for me if that was the case.

My problem is when I see people exhibiting self-hate against their race - and I mean ANY race. I can't stand to hear some dumb-ass white girl sat she only dates brothas cuz "they know how to work it" or "they got swag". So, essentially, you're telling me you met some cats who played into archetypal stereotypes, and you can't stand people who look just like you?

FAIL.

A lot of people date outside of their race for the wrong reasons, in my opinion. But if you truly just love someone for who they are, and you guys aren't caught up in race and society, then more power to you. It's your business - not mine. All I can do is offer my opinion - but YOU have to live with each other, happily or otherwise. So do y'all - cuz I know I'mm a do me.

When I was in high school and even part of college, the possibility of marrying someone who was white was unfathomable to me. By the end of college, I was like "who knows what the future holds". Not that I would seek that out or push for it - if you know me, you know a blue-eyed Heather ain't my bag, baby - but who knows? Things happen in crazy fashion at times.

Incidentally...I used to own that movie you put the clip of, Brooke. I NEVER watched it. I wound up giving it to one of my young adults who I mentor when she asked me if I could burn her a copy. I love Sanaa Lathan, but I can't stand a trend she went through of playing "Ms. white man's desire" on-screen. One or two roles is fine, but once it becomes a trend, I don't wanna see that ish, knowing the history of Hollywood, and how white men with women of color are gladly depicted, but rarely the other way around.

It's probably why I like Julia Stiles so much - cuz she had the guts to play a white girl with a Black man not once, but TWICE - at the height of her popularity, against other people's recommendations. She's a good actress, and I think she's pretty dreamy, too.

My two cents. This is a topic that may illicit multiple responses form the kid...

Rameer said...

Addendum: I agree with Ant. I hate hoe my people have this light/dark thing going. I understand - the European invaders forced this mindset upon us, all whilst raping and intermingling with our indigenous women - but damn, it's so ignorant it's frustrating.

I thank the heavens most of the people on the Latin side of my family are brown-skinned and are either not typical or have changed their mindset over time.

Anonymous said...

I dated a Chinese woman before. Her name was Sum Dum Ho!


That joke is so corny ... But yet some funny in so many different ways! :-)

Brooke said...

...there's always one :-)

But I agree, if you're dating someone based on a stereotype, no matter the race, then it's wrong. You shouldn't date white women because they're "easier" than black women, or date black men cuz they're "hung" or Latinos because "they're fiery!" There are always exceptions to every rule - you should date someone because you're attracted to them and because you have some things in common.

And yes, I'll see you August 8th - a wedding between a white man and a black woman - both very dear friends of mine :)

-V- said...

I get approached by a lot black women ... what's that about?

Anonymous said...

You picked a heater today B! let me get my thoughts together on this 1..you know how my pops gets down..so this is going to be interesting...ZAY

Brooke said...

V, you get approached because you're handsome and smart and funny. And you're not white, LOL!

Asian men are sexy too, but I find that even fewer of them approach black women...or is that just me?

V has swagger too ;-)

Zay, I'll be waiting for your comment :)

Rameer said...

I got a fetish for Ethiopians, Eritreans and Asian women with a brown hue to their skin...

But I take on in all shapes, sizes and forms...I go from Salma Hayek to Meagan Goode, from Alyssa Milano to Lucy Liu, from Malinda Williams to Padma Lakshmi, from Monica Belucci to Brooke Dean...

Women are beautiful. Mm-mmm!

-V- said...

That's because most Asian men are 5'2" ...

Thanks babe, I attribute the swagger to a lifetime of fried chicken & rap music ;-)

Brooke said...

now see V... :-)

thanks Rameer! I don't mind being lumped in with those other ladies, all beautiful :)

How come none of the men addressed the question I had about actually WANTING or having an INTEREST in getting married? My married men can reply to that too...what made you want to do it besides being in love?

phillygrl said...

i am partial to black men..but once, in high school, i "kicked" it with this white guy--mainly b/c he was the best friend of a guy my friend was hanging out with ..thing is, he grew up in our neighborhood & I just really thought of him as Black..I mean, he didn't look black, but he acted black( whatever that means) ..Basically, if every one was at the playground shootin hoops , he was right there, at the party in so & so' s basement, he was there, it wasn't like I met him somewhere else & he was TRYING to be a certain way & I wasn't trying to either, i actually don't think he ever had dated a white girl b/c where were they? not in our neighborhood..anyway....found out he had a false tooth( he took the damn thing out when he asked me for a kiss)..YUCK!!.needless to say, that was the end of that!!..he was such dummy anyway!lol!!..class clown type dude!!!...we remained cool. etc. etc...as an adult....never dated a white guy, not really attracted tot hem, but i don't limit myself, opportunity never presented itself......

phillygrl said...

p.s. brooke..i walways thought of Franco as Black....I mean spain, the moors....moroccan...i think he's black!:-)

Rameer said...

I would love to get married, but I'm not going to settle. That's my own personal stance, without going too much into a relationship dynamic convo.

If I meet and am together with the right woman whom I love and loves me equally, I see no problem with marrying her - and I don't need 5 years to determine if she's right or not. But, until I'm with a marriage-material woman again, all a brother can do is date.

Serena W. said...

Woooo eeee this topic is hot. I've considered dating outside my race. Being in Dallas has opened up my eyes. But I never did but won't rule it out. And yes a lot of Asian men are short but I have seen some tall ones lol. Anthony I agree with you on the subject of latinos being racist. I've heard from so many friends that their latin boyfriends parents couldn't stand them because they were black. Come on people! That erks me so bad.

Serena W. said...

I also love that movie Something New by the way :)

Brooke said...

I have a Puerto Rican friend whose parents told her that they'd rather she marry a white man than a black man...and her mother is at least 3 shades darker than me. Go figure. But I agree with Serena and Karen - I'm not opposed to it, the opportunity just never really presented itself. I don't get approached by anyone other than black men.

Latinegro said...

Damn Puerto Ricans...

Brooke said...

Stop it! LOL! It's sad tho.

Serena W. said...

Yeah the white dudes never approached me either. Ah well! If the opportunity presents itself we'll see what goes down. But I also would love to hear from the brothers today about their feelings on marriage. Do y'all wanna jump the broom or chill...

Brooke said...

I read this article where it said black men in particular don't feel the need to get married because women settle. They don't need to be educated or employed. It said that because over 70% of children born to black women are out of wedlock, it shows that even though these men are not good enough to marry (by THE WOMAN'S STANDARDS), she'll still have his baby. The article said white women are less likely to have a baby out of wedlock, so men feel the need to propose to them more. Not sure how true it is...it could just be that they have more abortions.

Either way, whichever statistic is true or not true, it's an interesting discussion.

-V- said...

Stop having babies with knuckleheads!!!

Brooke said...

Okay, so let's say the guy ISN'T a knucklehead. I know women who have had children with men that are good men who they've been with for a few years. The man has't proposed and these women are wondering why. What makes a man want to get married? To me it seems that children are a bigger responsibility than marriage is. Not saying a piece of paper makes the commitment, but what is it that makes a man propose vs. one who just wants to chill, as Serena put it?

Rameer said...

Serena - could've SWORE my last comment gave my thoughts on marriage...y'all gonna ask for a brother's opinion on marriage, then ignore when one DOES speak up? Forget y'all...

Here's something a lot of black owmen don't realize - for those of you who saw "Monster's Ball" - the scene where Billy Bob's father says "you're not a man until you split dark oak?" TRUE. A lot of white men feel that way...like they just gotta do one or a few before they REALLY settle down with a nice, white woman. Which is why it isn't as simple for Black women to "just go white" - something that isn't reported but is very real is how many women get "Shar Jacksoned". Meaning - it SEEMED all good, but the first opp that your white Prince Charming gets, he's settling down with the first Becky he meets.

True Story. And the thing is, very few Black women can tell which white guys are for real, and which ones want to dip in the mocha. But it's been something that's been going on since the inception of the USA.

So it ain't as easy as y'all just saying "I'll give a white dude a chance". You'll be Sharred up! And no, I don't necessarily mean pregnant and left behind exactly like Shar - but just played and discarded, unknowingly used to fill some fantasy and/or milestone.

The reverse can be true of white women as well - but it's WAY more frequent amongst white men. TRUST ME - I know all too well. You'd be surprised what is revealed to people at times.

Latinegro said...

But at the same time Rameer, there are alot of tired, broke, no game negros who want just one thing.

Shit, these are the brothas that give all of us a bad name. So if you a black woman or latina finds a nice white boy...good for them!

We are getting to a certain age where it is put up or shut up.

Rameer said...

Oh, you're right, Ant - but sisters who are "keeping their options open" don't tend to think about the whole "experiment" thing. And, in my opinion, it's easier to spot a Black or Latino dude, cuz usually they're coming with some type of game that if you just pay attention, you can see it for what it is. The white dudes are harder, cuz they don't act viscerally different from the white dudes with good intentions.

If a brother is tired, broke, or has some other obvious problem, I blame the girl for being stupid enough to give Pookie the shot in the first place - just like I did when I was on-campus.

I'm just saying it ain't nowhere near easier for them to go to the white side. That's quite the misnomer.

Brooke said...

I agree with that. Most black women I know don't have white guys, or any other ethnicity, checkin for them. I only get approached by black or Latino men. But black men will step to almost anyone - as Chris Rock said in the clip - they exercise their options...and do so openly. Over 70% of interracial couples involve a black man and a white woman. If men of other races were genuinely as open to dating us as black men are in dating outside their race, we may not have such a disparity in the number of black women who get married vs. white women.

Rameer said...

Let me be clear...

ALL RACES AND ETHNICITIES CHECK FOR BLACK WOMEN. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Now, whether they are intimidated cuz they Black women have "attitude" or have whatever racial or sociological hang-up is on that dude. But I've met very few men on this Earth that couldn't easily run off 10 beautiful Black women at any point. Black men are just more bold with they way we step to women. Latinos are the same way in Miami...they'll step to anyone, no problem.

The reason there are more Black men married to white women is rooted psychologically in slavery times (too deep to get into here right now) and the fact that white women are more apt to marry a Black man as long as he's financially secure. They also tend to be more subservient, which all rich men - Black men included - tend to like.

Brooke said...

Well, if they're checking for me, they're doing it privately :)

Rameer said...

Brooke -

That's what they tend to do. I once proved my point to a Black female friend by telling her to press the issue a little with 5 select, very different co-workers. She was shocked...they all were like "HELL YEAH!". No surprise to me...I tend to know the nature of human beings. But she swore no non-Black men thought she was attractive, cuz they had never said or done anything in over a decade of working there. I told her that didn't mean SQUA-DOOSH...and was right.

She was mad she had to spend weeks getting them to stop hitting on her or trying to kick the lyrics once she pretended to give them the greenlight to press the issue...

Know this. ANYTHING people of color like, white people like too. Whether it be music, fashion, women, etc. We have - and always will - set the trend for what is desirable and likeable.

Back in slave times, slaves thought we were hated by the whites...and that our women were "ugly" and "beast-like". Yet over 70% of all Black women were forced to have sex with a white master or overseer.

Don't believe the hype. Use your third eye.

If not for anything, then go off this - I've never thought a woman was attractive that other men said was butt-ugly or desirable. And I think your delectable.

Brooke said...

awww, thanks :)

I wonder where my anonymous friend went. I would love to hear his response to that...even though he may think it doesn't apply to him since he's marrying a black woman.

I want to get non-black men's view on that....V? :)

So if non-black men are afraid to step to us, and we outnumber black men and there aren't enough available ones to go around, what is a woman to do? :)

I know alot of black women who share their men too...and justify it by stating the statistics. What do you think about that?

Rameer said...

Black women in places like DC and ATL share their men knowingly, as they outnumber us at ridiculous rates in those areas - like 5-1. It's crazy...but I actually understand the twisted mindset...if a guy with a good job and education is doing all the right things and being a good man to them, they don't mind if he has "business" miles away that they never see or have to know specifics about. As long as he's safe.

I know...sad, ain't it?

Latinos WILL step to women of all colors if they're so inclined, so I'm a bit confused at your experience. Shade of skin issues aside, if they don't have that hang-up, I know plenty of Latino men that will step it up.

I'm not here to give the definitive solution, I tend to point out realities moreso than anything. And reality is - Black women in today's society need to drop the attitude that some have, and they need to be the aggressors. After the typical reasons, out of the pool that's left, you have to deal with Bitchassness, men feeling themselves cuz they know y'all outnumber us and we can have the pick of the litter, and comp from other women. The days of just walking in looking good and a good man approaching y'all are not around any more.

No group of women are more intimidating to some men than Black women. Personally, I think that's hogwash, but I'm just telling you what studies and men say. Where I live, any time a Black female is feeling herself too much, I say "take your ass to Maryland for a weekend, then get back to me". When you see a bunch of Halles, Nias and Beyonces walking around fighting for a good man and dropping the "YOU come to ME" old-school attitude, it humbles you. Cuz a lot of women feel like "damn, if SHE can't get a good dude down her,e what chance do I stand?"

Real talk. When I saw the film The Best Man, I thought it was bullshit that Nia Long's character couldn't get a man. Spent some time down there...and I completely saw it to be not only true, but worse than the film even inferred...

The only advice I can give for Black women - y'all better go after it, cuz when I go to DC, within 5 minutes of walking in the spot, women are stepping TO ME. It's actually a bit weird for me to have to put any real effort into going at a woman down there...as long as you're a good, clean brother with education and a good job, you're pretty much golden.

Thus, Black men don't feel the need to get married for another reason - cuz there's so many options.

Brooke said...

I guess I don't include Latinos in my "non-black" men statement because I consider them men of color. Latinos step to me, not ALOT, but they do...here and there.

As for women going after what they want, I don't think that's necessarily the issue. I have no problem approaching a man...and I have many friends who are the same way. The problem comes when that man expects you to do ALL the work. They see themselves as the commodity and feel they don't have to DO anything, BRING anything, AT ALL. I guess that's the bitchassness you speak of. I have no problem saying hi, but meet me halfway. Men make you feel like you HAVE to fight for them, and that's wack to me. If you have options, fine - but don't make me feel like "you better get me or someone else will"...like the woman isn't a good catch herself. I think men always feel like "there's something else out there better" so they don't settle down until the finally get it thru their head that no perfect woman exists and that they may have let several good women go in pursuit of that perfect, non-existent woman.

And plenty of men I know say they don't like a woman who is the aggressor because men like the chase. They feel that if a woman comes after them, they're taking over HIS role and not "playing hers." It's almost like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. And even the women I know who DO initiate, that doesn't mean the man will settle down with you, it just means that this is just one of the many women he's dealing with that he didn't have to work for.

Rameer said...

HEY, don't shoot the messenger! I personally don't prefer women being extra aggressive...I'm more of a guy that just likes women to be receptive or to meet me halfway.

Funny thing is, depending on where one lives, the same problem is complained about. The thing you and your friends complain about with how the men act like they have options is the same complaint MEN have where I live when it comes to Black and Latino women. Only thing is, they complain the women ain't FINE ENOUGH to hold that attitude! LMAO!

I've said it before - y'all got it HARD. Personally, I think a lot of problems arise from the region and environment people are in, cuz people tend to adopt the attitude of the region they're in. Being that I used to travel a lot, I know not to put all women into the box that many women in Buffalo are in...but if you're stuck in an area, you start thinking that just the way a gender is. And it can be very different in favor of whatever gender depending on where you are.

Overall - I will always agree that Black and Latina women have it so hard in today's society. But it ain't like us men are just coasting - I personally get sick of my DC/MD/VA/NYC friends asking me how a "good guy like me isn't married". I reply easy - I don't live THERE.

Pretty Ricky What Dey Call'em said...

Very good topic brooke... I was thinking about broaching that topic on my conversation on race on my facebook page. In any regards... I have to say that I absolutely no problem with people dating outside their race. OK wait..that's not true... I do always have an initial reaction when I see it, but usually i get over it very quickly.

In any event, like I said, I don't have a problem with it, but as for me in my house, i couldn't do it now. Part of who I am is very "pro black." I appreciate my history and my community... and knowing what I know about the situation facing our black women face who are looking for a black man... I can not bring myself to do it. This is not to say that I don't find white women attractive (Charlise Theron is my girl...and Ellen...LOL Go figure) and this is not even to say that I have never dated a white women (actually what we did could not be considered dating... Boing Chicka Wow Wow)... but for me, it has a deeper communal responsibility for me.

Brooke said...

I hear you B, and you found yourself a Queen, lucky woman!

Can't wait to meet her in DR!

Georgia Peach said...

Hello-

I'm all late today, today was my first day back from vacation and I was playing catch up all day. I don't have time to read all the comments posted here (try to do that tmrw maybe), but I just wanted to say that I have been on a date or two with white guys, but it was never anything serious. My sister who is 25 now seems to exclusively date white guys and I think part of it is because of her social circle and part is a personal preference thing. It's an interesting topic and I was actually going to blog on the whole thing b/c like you Brooke - white men only seem bold enough to approach me online not ever in person.

I'll try to log on a little earlier tmrw so I can keep up with the comments.

Renee said...

I debated about doing this anonymously because I hesitate to put my BI out there, but I am happily in love with a white man who was definitely the one who did the pursuing.
Maybe it's where I live (DC area) or the fact that I hang out with all kinds of people but I've had all types of dudes push up on me. I have no idea why. I am (however) what I like to call a "UN dater" and maybe it is obvious to those around me that I don't really look at race like that. Okay so I wasn't always like this, but I am now and that is what matters...
I've hung out with many different types of men in all shades and I discovered one thing. Both good men and complete assholes exist in every race and it's about the person who most fits what you want in your life despite what their race/ethnicity is.
Sorry for the late comment, but I couldn't help myself...

Brooke said...

Thank you for that comment! I wish I could say I've had your experience, just so I could know how you may have found love. I've never been pursued by a white guy, and barely a guy of any other race for that matter, so I have no experience in dealing with opening my heart to another race. Not that they have to do all the pursuing all the time, but I just find that they're not in my circle even though I work with them. All of the white men I know are gay or married, so even if I DID do the pursuing, there is no one for me to pursue that I've been attracted to. I find everyone's experiences so interesting in this discussion. Great dialogue, thanks for sharing.

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