Wednesday, January 13, 2010

You're So Nice...Let's Wait

Happy Hump Day mi gente!

Before we get into today's discussion, I'd like to send my thoughts and prayers to those affected by the earthquake in Haiti. If you'd like to make a charitable donation, you can visit Wyclef's site at http://www.yele.org/. Or you can donate to Unicef as well.

Now...

A guy friend and I were having this age old conversation the other day – nice guys finish last. When I asked him what he meant by that, this was his response.

Male Friend: We get the sex last, even if we’re good guys.

Me: Last behind…who exactly?

MF: I’ve been dating this girl for a month and a half now. I know she likes me and is attracted to me, but she won’t have sex with me. She told me that the reason she WON’T have sex with me is because I’m a good guy. How does that make any sense?

Me: I think what she means is, you’re a keeper…and she wants you to take her seriously.

MF: So my redeeming qualities are what’s keeping her from giving me some?

Me: Exactly.

MF: But if I was Pookie from the club, she might have given me some by now if she thought I would blow her back out, right?

Me: Maybe. I don’t know her or how she thinks…but perhaps.

MF: So I need to take off my suit and put on a wife beater in order to be intimate with her?

Me: No, not saying that.

MF: See…y’all women kill me. This is why nice guys finish last.

I understand his frustrations, but honestly…if he feels she’s worth waiting for – he’ll wait. If all he’s concerned with is “getting some” – then maybe he’s no different than Pookie.

But are women guilty of playing this game as well?

I know some women who will have sex with the guy with NO redeeming qualities whatsoever – yet hold out on the goodies for that “keeper” who they want to take them seriously. You know what I mean – he’s good looking, educated, intelligent, has a great job, never been married, no kids, has all his teeth, etc. He’s “husband” material – so we don’t want to do anything that’ll land us in the ‘friends with benefits” or “jumpoff” category. So we play nice girl, even though our hormones are raging and we want to jump his bones. He kisses us on our “spot,” yet we wipe our wetness so that we don’t send the wrong signals. We want to be “wifey” one day…so we hold true to the 90 Day Rule…which can be complete nonsense.

Meanwhile, he can’t figure it out. There’s obviously chemistry. He KNOWS we’d gladly lick his face if we could, yet we stop him at the door after our 6th date and give him a kiss on the cheek…if that. He feels he’s put in his time and shown us that he’s not just in it for sex…but he wants some dammit! What to do??

I don’t think there are any set rules as to when two adults should decide to have sex. And while waiting doesn’t guarantee that a man will eventually take you seriously and make you his boo, it can’t hurt to get to know him better either. Just make sure it’s not some game you’re playing while getting busy with Pookie on the side. If you’re into a guy, be into HIM…and him only. I know women have needs, but if the “good guy” can’t get any…then don’t give up your womanly space to the broke down dude who only serves a sexual purpose. I know Pookie has his place, but I think men can sniff other men on or around a woman – and it could backfire on you.

And men - I know you don’t want to hear that the very thing that makes you a great catch is the same reason you’re going home alone...again. But if you’re genuinely interested in that woman, the wait will be well worth it. Trust me.

Later, my friend goes on to say:

MF: Well, I can see how a woman can think that way. I’d have less respect for her if she gave it up to me on the first date. I have to admit, if I don't have to work for it, I lose interest. I know that’s not fair, but it’s true.

Me: Exactly…and women know this from past mistakes. Wait awhile…give her a little more time and just enjoy each other’s company. And please…PLEASE...put your wife beater away.

-b

52 comments:

Latinegro said...

First Bitches!

Little Girl Blue said...

Damn! I was so close!

Latinegro said...

OK...Been there. He needs to man up. Either wait and take it or bounce.

That may sound harsh but he is looking to have sex and he needs to be real with himself. He could just talk to her and bring it up.

The problem with trying to be wifey is that a man will put you on that pedestal and then wont do the freaky shit with you because of the respect thing. I say get it out the way now and let the chips fall where they may.

Yeah...it has been a while. Happy New Year. :)

Little Girl Blue said...

First of all, my mom calls me Pookie (a la the bear that Garfield carried around), so I take offense to the broke-ass dude being called that. I prefer "Keif an' nem." lol. Sike, not really offended, just throwing that out there. ;)

Anywho, the situation is definitely a catch-22. I found that with my honey I knew from the first date he was the one. Our first kiss was incredibly passionate and you know what? HE was the one that said "We should wait." Go figure, right? That just solidified the fact that MY man was right in front of me.

Granted, we didn't wait THAT long, but a few dates in it was fantastic. Nearly 2 years later and I still get butterflies when we kiss. And he's a VERY nice guy. Quiet, considerate, very sweet and laid back.

If the chemistry is there, I don't think the "90 Day Rule" or any of that nonsense necessarily applies. It has to be based on the two folks involved. And if a woman knows she wants to lock down her future husband, damnit, LET HIM KNOW HOW YOU FEEL! I get sick of females (my friends and others) waiting for the dude to make the first move. Makes no sense, ya dig? I'm not saying go on and propose after a week, but be honest: "Hey, I am really feeling you and want to concentrate on building something with you." Scary for some, yes, but not guts no glory.

Some females want to claim "independent woman" (i.e. I got my own this-and-that) in every other aspect except their love life. Just like with blessings (which I consider a potential spouse to be) name it and claim it!

THATgirl said...

I'm wondering--would any of you men meet a woman, go out with her, think she was amazing, get it on the first night--then never call again because you thought she was like that with everybody?

Basically, what are the odds that a woman giving you some relatively quickly would make you cut her off? Does this actually happen--if you really are somewhat interested in getting to know her? Or are we making this up in our own heads?

Brooke said...

Ant is back...and he's first! I missed you Ant!

Sorry Kristin...next time instead of "Pookie" I'll write "Ray Ray annem" so that I won't offend Keefe or Craig either :-) LOL!

That's a great question Thatgirl, because what I found interesting about our conversation was some of the hypocrisy in some of his comments. While I don't think she should have told him WHY he couldn't get any, even if she was being honest, I would have simply said "I just wanna get to know you better" instead of "you're a good guy" or a "keeper." That way she doesn't come off like she's playing games.

I've had long relationships with guys that I've had sex with early on, and I've had short relationships with men who I waited a long time to have sex with. While "time" is relative, it's really about a person's intentions and their genuine interest. Some men can wait for a very long time, and still have intentions of making you his woman, so it's all really just a risk. You can reduce the risk of getting played by taking time to get to know a person, but when it comes to love, there are no rules.

momo925 said...

I have actually talked to men that have said if a woman gives it up before the third date that they will never see her again, meanwhile they are upset if she waits longer than the third date to have sex with them. LOL

I feel that when the time is right you will know.

NightFall914 said...

I look at it as Yeah nice guys do finish last as in the "Last Man Standing"

Your the one who's there when the bullshit is through and all the smoke is cleared.

The wait is worth it.

Grownblknfocused said...

Nice guys finish last? There may be some truth to that. But if this guy in particular wants the booty and she isn't giving it up, he should keep her in his back pocket and utilitze his other roster to its maximum (keep 'em in rotation).

But if this guy geniuinely likes this woman, he will just go with the flow and let it naturally happen.

Stef said...

I don't think this guy is genuinely interested, cuz otherwise he wouldn't be complaining. And not for nothing, most men (and women) know where to get sex from, so instead of harassing her, he should just get his on the side like he's probably already doing and wait for the one he REALLY wants.

Brooke said...

@Stef, you touched on something.

What I found interesting was that he ASSUMED that because she wasn't having sex with HIM, she must be giving it up to some broke down dude. That's why I asked him "last behind WHO?" If she's waiting to get to know him better and thinks he's great, he should consider himself special and lucky that someone finds him that worthy that they don't want to take a chance on losing him and his respect.

But like Girl Blue said, she should just be honest with what she wants and expects and see what happens from there.

THATgirl said...

It's pointless for women to do that whole "make him wait, I actually like him" thing. At one point in time, it may have made sense. But these days, as Grown pointed out, a man will utilize his roster! A man will make you think they're waiting, go to the roster, and get somebody else for that, until you're up for it. The game has changed! He doesn't need you for "that" anymore. You think he's such a gentleman, he respects you, etc. etc...but in reality he's just waiting for you to give him the word, so that he can through YOU in rotation too.

THATgirl said...

*throw you in rotation, not through you!

My word verification is flask. Blogger must know its one of those days...

Grownblknfocused said...

My guess with Brooke's MF. One of the pieces of the puzzle missing is the sex. Perhaps this is why he is explicit. Brooke, how old is your MF? Do you know where he is in life? (like can you tell if he just wants to play the field or he really is serious on settling down)

Rameer "The Circumstance" said...

Look - I'm not gonna tell you what I would or have done, cuz we've well-established I'm a bit different - as are quite a few of the guys who comment.

But this "make him wait" crap falls into the category of playing games to me. Which I can't stand, but I can usually manipulate any "game" a woman wants to play. But I don't even WANT to play the game - it turns me off from the get-go.

Me and my boy Q talk to our interns all the time, who are overwhelmingly female. They trust us, so they'll talk to us about their relationships and views. They usually call me "the harsh one"...cuz I tell them the blatant truth! And one of those truths - I tell them to stop trying to play the good dudes who come along when you KNOW you were out ho'ing with Jaleek last weekend!

We all know if we "feel it". You know - that desire and want to be with someone you're into. Now if you've been dating a guy and have ascertained he's a nice/good guy, why put all types of restrictions on him that you didn't in the past? I agree - don't give it up too soon, and be guarded. But at some point, even Helen Keller can tell if a guy is different than the rest/others. You're gonna punish him for your bad choices in the past??

Rubbish.

And you know what you wind up doing? Inadvertently creating MORE dogs. As I've referenced in the past - unlike females, dudes hang with all types of other dudes. So we're hanging with Jaleek when he tells us "you still ain't tap that? I had her howling like Coming To America on THE SECOND NIGHT!" And we're listening to everyone laugh at us for being the square dude who is trying to do things "the right way" but going home alone and frustrated while Jaleek, Junior and Hakeem have stories for days.

Eventually (this applies really to young dudes), e say "EFF THIS. If this is what women want, then I'll give it to 'em." Dude then becomes a dog, does y'all dirty, y'all become upset and sometims bitter, and take it out on THE NEXT nice guy...and the cycle repeats. Over and over.

Stop this behavior. Use common sense. NO, you don't give it up quickly. YES, you go with the flow and try to use the best judgment. A good guy? Been out a few times? Isn't about jumping your bones immediately or all the time?

Then lose the ridiculous "90 Day Rules" and other made up limits you put on nice guys that you DON'T put on Mookie. Cuz a lot of y'all turn Rashad into Raekwon and then complain later...while giving it up Junior'n'dem...

Jay said...

It's interesting, because I can see this from many angles. I get why a woman would make a good dude wait...so long as she's careful with ALL men, not just the "good ones." If you're having sex with a no-good dude, but want to impose a "rule" for the good one, I think it winds up hurting you in the end. Not because it's unfair, but because you're spreading yourself too thin. This goes for men too, not just women...so I won't put that double standard out there.

If I'm into a woman, sex isn't on the forefront - getting to know her and be the only one SHE'S thinking about too is my goal. I can wait for the sex so long as I know she's on the same page. If a woman is having sex with someone else on the side while I "wait", chances are I'll sense that and keep it movin. But the same can be said for men. Women can sense the same thing on us...probaby TEN TIMES MORE since they tend to be more intuitive...so make sure you're playing fair too fellas.

As for turning a good dude bad, I think that only happens when sex is all he's after. If you're listening to Raekwon talking about how he tapped it, and that's what you wanna be doing too, then you'll turn into a bad dude for the sake of sex...which makes me believe that you're not really a good dude to begin with. That's what it sounds like with your friend Brooke. Sounds to me like he might not be as genuinely interested as we think...and if he thinks she's giving it up on the side, then he should move on instead of trying to hang in there simply cuz he feels he's "put in his time." I think that's wack.

Brooke said...

@Grown,

He's in his early 30's, and is pretty stable and has always told me he wants to settle down sooner rather than later. I think what he's upset about is how she said it. I think if she had said, "I'm not ready" or "I'd like to be smart about this and get to know you better" then he might not have had this reaction. But because she said he was a nice guy, I think he's second guessing her because he thinks she's playing games or wonders what else he has to do to prove his interest.

But only he knows what his intentions are. And as for women, I know alot of women who feel the "Raekwons" of the world have their place, and they're only using them for sex because they know they don't offer up much else. You'd be surprised how many women view sex like men do and can detach themselves from the guy they know is good for nothing but sex. It's not that he has NO redeeming qualities (he's cute, nice enough, has a job, you can talk to him, etc.) but they also know there's no future there but he's great in bed. It sounds crazy, but some men have the same thoughts about the women in their rotation. It's just that some men, the "good guys" don't wanna think about THEIR woman having a "rotation" too.

Rameer "The Circumstance" said...

I hear you Jay, but I COMPLETELY disagree with the assessment that a guy was bad to begin with if he turns. Notice - I said it applies usually with young dudes. But I've known plenty of honestly good guys who got tired of the weeks, months, sometimes YEARS of being a good guy but getting no play. And by play, I'm not even just talking about sex - I'm talking the companionship and enjoyment spent with having a woman.

There are PLENTY of people on both gender sides who get fed up and join the suit of others. And sometimes this is caused by the opposite gender. I pointed out a guy who went to my school who did this on a previous blog a while back...and the same girls who put him in the friend zone and called him "too nice" were climbing over each other to drop the panties when he turned "bad".

Personally, I can wait for a good woman too. But I HAVE told a woman in the past "I'm not gonna play that game where you punish me for what the next dude did. Clean slate, and we move forward TOGETHER". And if a woman applies the same standards to all men, I've got no issue. My issue lies with the women who treat the nice guy funny style, but don't do that with Raekwon! That's asinine to me. They stumble over themselves trying to make it work with Raekwon and CHANGE him, but Rashad has to be given the strict rules and scrutiny??

Madness. Especially when most times, a dude will KNOW the deal - just like a woman will if a dude has "side options" as you referenced.

Don't try to be Tia & Tamara with Rashad when you was just Lil' Kim last week with Raekwon.

Jay said...

@Rameer,

I completely feel you my dude, and like I said, she has to be consistent across the board with all men, not just me or someone else. But I've never let a woman change me or make me be bad just so I can get some play. If she ain't feeling me for me, then there are 10 others who are, and who will get my undivided attention. But yes, that's a young minded mentality that I've seen many a young dude apply in order to get some play. The sad thing is, they turn bad...and the truly "good girls" with some sense, the ones they wanna bring home to mama aren't checking for their punk asses. Then they gotta turn "good" again. Just my personal observations.

As for what you said Brooke, you're right. Men don't wanna know if a woman they're interested in has or had a "rotation." It's the double standard, and women aren't sitting at home not having their needs met but "some dude" while they wait for the good guy to come along. And to suggest that they SHOULD be waiting and keeping it on ice til the find him would be ridiculous if we told men they had to do the same thing. Trust me, most dudes DON'T sit at home NOT having sex while they wait for that "good girl" to come around - so why do we expect women do to the same thing? We treat the "good girl" better than we do the girls in our rotation. We take them out, spend money and time on them...so a woman doing the same thing by making a good dude earn it is almost no different than what some men do.

Stef said...

@Jay,

I'm so glad YOU said that! Funny how Grown and some other folks said that a man should just go to his rotation while he waits, but if a woman goes to HER rotation while holding out on the good dude, then she's a ho, or she's silly. Most women I know who have a jumpoff know full well what he is. They don't try to make it work with him and don't have any grand delusions of turning him into something he's not. A lot of women can think just like a dude when it comes to sex and knows to keep Raekwon in his place. So the women who recognize the "good guy" are making sure they don't end up in the jumpoff category by giving it up too soon, especially if she's not sure if the guy is in it just for the challenge. It's no different than a guy spending his money on one chick, while blowing the back out of another at the same time. It goes both ways.

Grownblknfocused said...

I agree with Rameer. Sometimes ladies fall into that cliche "I'm tired of playing games" but in reality when they set certain parameters, they are playing themselves.

Everything revolves around my "compromise" theory from last week. Is he also willing to compromise the lack of sex from this woman to be with her exclusively? That you will have to ask Brooke's MF

Stef- I have no problem with a woman going into her rotation. Rotation should be used for men or women until there is a full committment. However, men and women can be ho's. You put that out there miss. Women shouldn't worry what the general perception of what others think.

Stef said...

I don't think women worry about the general perception of what all think - just the dude she's dating, the one she likes. Later for the rest.

I've known plenty of women who were selective in who they slept with and weren't ho's in the least bit. Then they started seeing a guy, didn't give it up on the first date, but didn't wait a long time either - and she thought they both were feeling it. They slept with the guy, and then POOF! gone. When she asked him what was up, he said once he had sex, he was pretty much uninterested afterwards. Not saying he was a good dude, but they thought he was...so, I think women don't know how to play it sometimes because many a woman has fallen for the okie doke by "nice guys" who KNOW how to play nice and then bounce once the sex is had. Most women don't view holding out as a game, but moreso a way to not fall for the okie doke again. It's more a defense mechanism, and it't not that she's making another guy "pay" for someone else's shortcomings, but she's simply protecting herself.

Jaz said...

@Stef,

I agree with that. Most men view non-sex as punishment, not realizing that maybe having sex too soon sabotaged past relationships simply because some men can't get over themselves thinking that women aren't supposed to be sexual beings. I don't agree with game playing, but you're right...most women just learn from past mistakes and try not to make the same ones twice. It's about being smarter than you've been, especially if what you've been doing in the past doesn't work.

I'm glad Jay said this, a guy who only wants sex will become a wolf in sheep's clothing to get it. And if that's what he has to do, then his intentions are for sex only. Brooke's MF probably isn't getting any because he brings it up often, or she's getting the sense that that's all that's on his mind. How is he finishing last if a woman says he's worth waiting for? If it's about sex, if they work out, then he'll be the last guy standing like NightFall said and there won't be any other dudes after him.

The Cable Guy said...

I hate to admit it, but the women have a point. In my past, I could be all into a woman, but the minute she gives me some good sex, I might forget about everything else and start wondering who else she might have done this with on the first date. I know now that it's stupid, but I have countless female friends who tell me they thought everything was going great and that he was really into her, only for him to pull a 180 and suddenly stop calling.

In those instances where I've done it, I can truly say that I had a genuine interest up until we had sex. I know that I may have been young and dumb, but what are women to do when dealing with young and dumb men who have made this mistake in the past. It's not their fault, yet they feel like sex was the problem, so the next guy they're not gonna do that with, no matter how much they think they're feeling each other.

This is a touchy subject because there are no guarantees. Sometimes you just have to take a chance and hope the dude you choose isn't an asshole.

Jay said...

Dare I say that Cable Guy has a point?? :)

It's all about the person. I've had sex on first dates with women who I didn't call again, and I've had sex on first dates with women who I totally respected and had serious relationships with. I don't consider myself an asshole, but in my younger days, it was what it was. I tend to not have casual sex nowadays because quality (meaning I have to truly LIKE the person I'm with and respect her) is more important to me than quantity and simply "gettin mine." While I know most men may not be like that, the trick is being able to recognize if a man is GENUINELY interested in you completely, not just sexually attracted to you. I know that may be hard, but it's a risk you take.

Craig n 'em said...

CUT THAT NICE SHIT OUT!!!!

Don't get me wrong, you can be a nice guy and still get the puss...but you CANNOT be 100% nice. Regardless of what women say...They don't want that shit.

Sometimes you gotta just take the puss. That's right...I said it...You gotta take the puss... with your EYES!!!

You gotta have BAD BOY EYES...Your eyes gotta have a criminal record...you gotta have that ESP...Have the power to communicate with a woman without talking...You gotta touch a woman with your EYES! You gotta rape a woman with your EYES...THAT IS LEGAL! EYE RAPE is not CRIMINAL!!!!

But you gotta be a SMOOTH EYE RAPIST...

TRUE STORY (in a nutshell):

A woman once thought of me as the "NICE GUY" (this is pre-weed)...Anyway...She gave me the same
POO POO STORY that dude gave Brooke..

WOMAN: Craig, I think you're a really cool guy. We love the same things, I love shopping with you, you're great to talk to. You let me express myself, help me get through my past relationship but I'm just not ready to take it to the next level with you.

ME: But you hated your boyfriend, he cheated on you, never respected you and you did all kinds of shit with him.

WOMAN: True, but I'm turning over a new page in my life.

ME: But you dont have to turn over a new page, just edit the page you on...No one said nothing about turning it over. It wasnt that bad...You was just giving that page to the wrong person.

She gave me the :-/

WOMAN: What?

NO ASS THAT NIGHT...

Fast forward...I saw her at a club two days later...she was at the other end of the bar. This is when I made my move...I ordered YAC...

...I locked eyes with her...

ME (IN MY MIND, PROJECTING TO MY VICTIM): Yeah, I see you. Looking all nice and sweet over there...You got your girls out tonight too? Damn, they looking plump. Sexy ass. Yeah I see you. I see you seeing me...Imma bite em. Tonight too. You just dont know. I know you warm right now.

SHE REACHES FOR A NAPKIN AND DAB HER MOIST CLEAVAGE...

ME: Yeah, I know you feel that HEAT coming at yo ass. You don't even KNOW!!! You have NO IDEA what kind of DICK you missin out on, girl..AND I GOT YAC in my system??!!! Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit...Turn the page? I'll split your page in two! I swear, you will bite that pillow so fucking hard yo dental history will be on that bitch for a week! IMMA FUCK THE SHIT OUTTA YOU. IM NOT FUCKING PLAYING. IMMA MAKE YOU CRY HAPPY THOUGHTS!!! IMMA BEAST...muthafucking BEASTALITY...how you say it? BEASTIALITY up in this muthafucka!!!!

Two minutes later, she walks over. Whispers in my ear and we're walking out the club. Took her home.
We had sex that night. Lasted 5 minutes. I was too drunk BUT THATS NOT THE POINT!

I hit...;-)

Grownblknfocused said...

Wow @ Craig n 'em..

I wouldn't say non-sex is punishment. Overall, in this situation, is he willing to wait exclusively for her?

I'll clearly state: men and women can be ho's but who cares what the general perception thinks on the individual, as long as they stand true to their values on going about with their business.

Brooke said...

Craig...I don't even know what to say to that :)

Stef said...

@Craig,

You are a NUT!!! But you're right! You can be a nice guy while still projecting the "sexy."

I just hope that the "rape eye" doesn't look like the "creepy" eye! LMAO!!

Rameer "The Circumstance" said...

CRAIG!!! Man, I missed yo silly arse on the blog! Lmao!!!

The women have all made good points. but here's the problem - all these women are (or at least appear to be) good, sensible, decent women. So some of y'all may not play games. Just like most guys on here are good guys.

I tend to talk from the reality of what I see out there where I've been. Most of my experiences come from the cities I've frequented - ones in New York state, Atlanta, DC, Toronto and Cleveland have been places where I've spent the most time - and from talking to people who live in a variety of cities. And I will say this - I believe A LOT of women fit exactly into the what Craig said - you CAN'T be 100% nice.

I've said on the blog before - I've been told by women in the past I'm "a nice guy in bad guy's clothing". Sometimes a woman may have perceived me to be bad cuz she met me amongst a group of players and assumed I was one. Maybe she talked ish and I talked ish better (I'm great at that). Maybe my "don't give a eff" attitude made her think I was a bad boy. Maybe it was cockiness on the basketball court. There are a variety of things.

It wasn't until she got to REALLY know me that a woman would be like "yo...you're kind of a NICE guy". And the way she would say it came off like "I might not have gave you the time had I known this". But inevitably, they all appreciated it. My girl friend now even once said "you're a good guy with bad guy tendencies". Now I'm not fakin' the funk - just being me. But what the eff is THAT??

A lot of women talk about what they want, but in reality, that's not who they pursue or fall out over at all. Again - dealing with my female interns over the years, I've literally criticized them about lamenting why they can't find a good guy, but then I see them trying to turn Raekwon into Rashad. their actions don't translate. Do men sometimes do the same thing? Yup. But this topic focuses moreso on the nice guys in relation to women, not the nice women in relation to guys.

I'm just sayin'. Jigga said this week he can't imagine y'all not being able to get dates or something to that effect. That's cuz most of y'all ain't the ones playing Rashad like the herb. But trust - I know plenty of Rashads.

Those brothas are home on Friday night trying to find something to do. I can't *catch* Raekwon's trifling arse after 10pm...he always got a chick to hook up with.

And for the record - me and my cousin JUST had a convo about a mutual friend we know who is a REALLY good dude and is frustrated to the hilt that he can't find a good woman to give him the time of day to pursue a relationship. Considered handsome by women, good job, overall good dude...and he's SICK of it.

He literally said this week "That's it. I'm gonna start looking into dating white women." He doesn't want to date trifling girls or just sleep around...he's in his mid-thirties and BEEN ready to settle down.

And he's had it. You know what me and my cousin talked about in regards to him?

The fact that he suffers from "nice guy disease".

Jaz said...

@Rameer,

So your boy equates trifling women with BLACK women?

I hate that shit.

Guess what, white women turn away "good dudes" too.

Unbelievable.

Rameer "The Circumstance" said...

@ Jaz - no, I don't believe he does. Amongst the population of black women he's exposed to, I think he has a high percentage that he deems trifling.

It's funny you wrote that comment. When I spoke to him in the convo he made that comment to me, I actually said to him "you know effed up girls come in all colors - it ain't a Black thing". Lmao! So it's ironic you say something similar.

Geeque4u said...

@Graig n'em - Great story!!! LMAO!!!

Jay said...

Yo, this Craig dude is MAD FUNNY!!

But he's right! You have to know when to be "bad" - which doesn't always mean be an asshole, but still be the good guy overall. I guess like Rameer said, a "nice guy" with bad boy tendencies.

Let's face it, women don't want a dude who gives them everything they want, is nice ALL THE DAMN TIME, and appears weak. It's a twisted way of thinking that I think alot of women get wrong, which in turn makes men think they have to be assholes in order to get some attention.

Being nice while standing firm and saying what you want takes a real man. Otherwise, the "nice guy" and the "bad guy" both have too much "bitchassness" between them. Not many guys know how to be both, which makes it hard for women to decipher which is which. We've learned how to manipulate women, but so long as a woman is in touch with, stands true to and commands a certain level of respect and standards, she'll be able to determine who the real nice guys are and who the bitchasses are.

Rameer "The Circumstance" said...

My man Hov. You hit in RIGHT ON THE HEAD when you wrote:

"Not many guys know how to be both, which makes it hard for women to decipher which is which."

I think women may be looking for this hybrid and wind up with guys who are way too high up the nice meter or way too far in the bad guy spectrum of things. Looking for this perfect hybrid tends to result in meeting mostly guys who fall into either camp. So I think they need to ascertain exactly what they want...there IS no "perfect guy" waiting out there for each and every woman. That's some ol' Pretty Woman/Richard Gere crap.

I don't know about being too much of a nice guy or a bad guy meaning the guy has to have bitchassness. C'mon - I KNOW you know plenty of bad guys and nice guys who you wouldn't call bitchasses, right?

Grownblknfocused said...

It is true in general: most women like @$$holes and jerks. Got to mix the good with the bad unfortunately.

Jay said...

Bitchassness meaning playing games. Trying to be something you're not just to get what you want. That's bitchass to me, and nice guys and bad guys both do this when they fall on the extreme end of the spectrum.

I have a female friend now telling me how this guy who once did all this great stuff for her suddenly stopped. Not cuz the sex stopped, but because he wants to see if she "notices"...if she really "likes" him. Mind you, it's not like she didn't reciprocate. Matter of fact, I think she gave dude too much upfront and he wasn't giving back equal in return. But this self proclaimed "nice guy" is testing her to see if she pines over him. Later for that shit. That's bitchassness...and he's a "nice guy."

Then there are the dudes who are assholes, because they know being that way has been successful in getting ass. But when they want something more, or meet a quality woman, they're not willing to be better than the asshole because they think it makes them weak, or that they'll actually have to WAIT to have sex for a woman who's worth it. Again, THAT to me is bitchass.

I think women need to know what they want, but trust me, we don't make it easy on them. Smart men know how to play this game, so we can't always fault women for not actually "knowing" what they want when we don't show consistent behavior.

Rameer "The Circumstance" said...

By your definition, I would agree - that activity is INDEED Bitchassness.

Ms. Penn said...

@Jay,

I think you nailed it. Most women I know (can't speak for the masses) are pretty smart when it comes to choosing men to spend their time with. But it can be confusing when you're dealing with a man who knows how to put on that "nice guy" coat in order to further his agenda. And I think these guys fall somewhere in the middle. I think a guy can be a nice guy or an asshole depending on the day. The core of who you are should remain the same, but I think men have adapted to get what they want. It's not until they think they've met a "keeper" themselves that they'll change accordingly if they're ready.

All this "nice" guy "bad" guy stuff is relative. A man will be a "nice" guy for a woman he feels is worthy, even if he was an asshole all his life until then. And a woman can have herself a "rotation" until she meets a guy she wants to wait for. People can and sometimes DO change, but only when they feel it's worth it.

As for your friend Brooke, I hope he doesn't mess this up. I hope he sticks around to see if the wait was worth it, because honestly I don't think he's gonna be waiting too long. You didn't say how long they've been dating, but most women (unless they want to wait until marriage) won't wait longer than 6 months of there's chemistry and she's feeling it too. If he can't wait that long, then he needs to move on. But if he can, the reward might be grand.

Mr. Nice Guy said...

Brooke told me she'd blog about this, but I didn't think she was serious. I should have known better.

It's cool reading all your comments, but I feel like I need to clear my good name :)

@Ms. Penn,

I think Brooke wrote that we've been dating for a month and a half. I can, and probably will, wait as long as she wants. I guess it was just the reason she gave for us not having sex. I don't press her, but I have let her know that I find her sexually attractive and I know thru things she's said she feels the same way.

And Brooke is right, there was some hypocrisy in my comments, but the full conversation wasn't posted, and by the end of our conversation, I got where Brooke was coming from. I value the woman I'm seeing, otherwise I wouldn't be dating her...especially with no sex involved. I dig her, and I'm ready for a relationship.

But when I say nice guys finish last, I really just means that we have to jump thru so many hoops before we prove our devotion, even when we've clearly shown what we're about, while most other dudes don't have to do anything in order to get it. I just don't want women to sell themselves short and respect themselves more. And Brooke and the other women made me think of it from another perspective that I hadn't before - that women know EXACTLY what they're doing when they have sex with the broke down dude and don't take him seriously.

Like Brother Rameer said, I guess the women on this blog don't fall into the norm - because most women will try to turn "Raekwon" into a good dude, just like a man might try to turn a ho into a housewife. It doesn't work. But I was wrong to make the assumption that my lady friend is giving it up to a "Raekwon" on the side. As a matter of fact, I don't think she is at all. I'm just sexually frustrated I guess.

And no Stef, I'm not gettin any on the side - LOL

Good points made by all, even Craig - that story was hilarious!

But his point is not lost - you can be nice but still be firm. I'll have a talk with her tonight to get this all ironed out (I'll print this out and show it to her) and let you all know how that turned out. Thanks B for the discussion and everyone for their feedback on this.

...now, I'm off to take a cold shower...again :-) LOL!

Brooke said...

I don't know why people don't believe me when I say I'm gonna blog about something. I always give the warning first :)

And Nice Guy, I hope I didn't paint the wrong picture of you, that was not my intention. I just wanted to shed light on something alot of men and women go thru when it comes to sex and our perceptions of when it's ok, not ok, should we or shouldn't we...

Rameer "The Circumstance" said...

Thanks for commenting, Nice Guy. And for validating the point I made - someone once pointed out to me on the blog that it's not really realistic for me to post from MY perspective as reality, since I'm not the norm. So I talk about the typical standard, not what I myself or my boys would do, since we don't seem to fit into the norm.

The same logic applies to most women who post on this blog. They AREN'T the norm in of women in many cities, and yes - many women will indeed try to make Raekwon into Rashad...and get mad and apply the bad experience with him to the true Rashads who come along.

Hope things work out for you, Bruh. Godspeed.

Ms. Penn said...

@Nice Guy,

My bad, Brooke DID write about how long you've been dating. I overlooked it...sorry!

I'm glad you're hanging in there.

And I don't think she made you look like a bad guy. There are alot of men who share your frustrations and I think this was a worthy discussion.

Good luck with your lady friend, I'm curious to know her thoughts after you share this blog with her :-)

Mr. Nice Guy said...

Thanks everyone.

It's not as bad as it seems, I guess I just wanna take it to the next level because we click in terms of everything else. I actually just want to be closer to her, and I don't want her to lump me in with any knuckleheads she may have dated in the past.

I read B's blog all the time, so I'm familiar with the usual suspects who comment. Most of you are exceptional people from what I read, so I'm sure alot of the discussions come from a very healthy, positive perspective. But this one I think is universal in terms of sex and perceptions and relationships. It IS tricky.

But let me ask a different question that I hope doesn't land me in the hot seat. Men - have you ever waited a long time for a chick you were diggin, and the sex was wack!?

God I hope that doesn't happen to me.

Not saying I wouldn't stay with her, because I like her and I don't think my future wife has to be the best sex I've ever had (chances are she won't be) - but how important is sexual compatibility to you?

Women can answer too.

And Brooke, I don't think you painted a bad picture of me at all. You know I love you!

Annamaria said...

OMG CRAIG IS A FOOL!!!!!
Mr. Nice Guy hang in there hopefully it will be worth the wait!!!! And hopefully she won't lump you in with the rest of them dudes.. You really can't blame a man for what the previous one did to you. That is just unfair....

And Ant...I'll excuse you for being first THIS ONCE!!!!

Jay said...

@Nice Guy,

I hope it works out.

As for sex, on a scale of 1 - 10, it's a 15. But if I love a woman, I'll MAKE it be the best sex I've ever had :-)

Stef said...

@Nice Guy,

I don't think she lumps you in with all the other knuckleheads, because if she did, she wouldn't have said that to you or made you wait. She would have either had sex with you already or never dated you in the first place. I think she thinks you're special - so no, she's not lumping you in with them and she doesn't want you to lump her with these other "fast tailed" girls :-)

Good luck!

Craig n 'em said...

EYE RAPE HER, "Mr. Nice Guy"...EYE RAPE HER....

Brooke said...

Craig, you might get arrested for that!

Mr. Nice Guy said...

@ Craig,

Yeah, I THINK I know what you maen, but not sure about the eye raping thing. I might need to practice - LOL!!

Thanks Stef, she's definitely not a "fast tailed" girl :)

@ Jay,

I feel the same way, sexual compatibility is very important to me. And if everything else about her holds true, then the sex can be what we want it to be. Good answer.

But judging from the chemistry between us already, I don't think we'll have any problems. I hope.

Craig n 'em said...

You can't get arrested for EYE RAPE...NO EVIDENCE, WON'T STAND IN COURT...

Brooke, you've been raped so many times, you probably didn't even know it...

You ever caught a guy staring at you and you say to him, smiling innocently.."what?". And he responded..."Nothing"...as he smiles...

Well...He just EYE RAPED yo ass...

Brooke said...

Childl please, it's been a while since I been eye raped...I could stand to get eye raped right about now :) I wouldn't even call the cops or press charges ;-)

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